REDCINE tip...

[Dan Blanchett]

Maybe with REDCINE and other apps in public beta, we'll see a programmer write this little conforming application as a third party app.

Like Automatic Duck. 3rd party solutions can be a powerful addition to the RED workflow and take pressure off of RED HQ.

 

[Mike Prevette]

I was able to do a simple conform from FCP to AE using XML this afternoon. A little scripting is all that would be needed to make something to copy all the active r3d clips to a folder, and set their in/out meta data. Then just feed it into RedCine in some order. Something tells me this won't be far off.

_mike

 

[M Most]

Maybe with REDCINE and other apps in public beta, we'll see a programmer write this little conforming application as a third party app.

Maybe it's worth considering letting post production professionals - people who spend their entire careers doing things like figuring out and implementing post workflows for final finishing, and the facilities they've created for the purpose - help you finish these projects rather than thinking that everything even remotely connected with the process should be cheap, easy, or free. You might actually find you get the project done better, faster, and not that much more expensively if you don't insist on doing everything yourself, especially if you're not very experienced at it.

 

[Jason Francois]

Maybe it's worth considering letting post production professionals - people who spend their entire careers doing things like figuring out and implementing post workflows for final finishing, and the facilities they've created for the purpose - help you finish these projects rather than thinking that everything even remotely connected with the process should be cheap, easy, or free. You might actually find you get the project done better, faster, and not that much more expensively if you don't insist on doing everything yourself, especially if you're not very experienced at it.

Well, now you've just gone and taken all the fun out of being an indie filmmaker. :blink:

 

[David Battistella]

Maybe it's worth considering letting post production professionals - people who spend their entire careers doing things like figuring out and implementing post workflows for final finishing, and the facilities they've created for the purpose - help you finish these projects rather than thinking that everything even remotely connected with the process should be cheap, easy, or free. You might actually find you get the project done better, faster, and not that much more expensively if you don't insist on doing everything yourself, especially if you're not very experienced at it.

My background is in post work flows. I recently helped a team here in Toronto figure out an AVID work flow for RED.

I don't get this post, you think only post professionals should have access to r3d files and onlines?

I am not suggesting replacing a finishing tool. I am suggesting a more efficient way of dealing with RED 4K files for finishing purposes.

Does it make sense to create 4K tiffs of every shot before you edit? I don't think so.

Does it make sense to conform every frame of every shot that is in your final cut? I don't think so.

All I was suggesting was a small app (some people have already written them) that would make EXTRACTING THE NECESSARY FRAMES.

I think you read a bit to much into my post and jumped to conclusions.

David

 

[David Battistella]

I was able to do a simple conform from FCP to AE using XML this afternoon. A little scripting is all that would be needed to make something to copy all the active r3d clips to a folder, and set their in/out meta data. Then just feed it into RedCine in some order. Something tells me this won't be far off.

_mike

Thanks Mike,

This is the kind of thing I was talking about. It's going to fill a nice little piece of the puzzle when this gets figured out.

David

 

[IAN SUN]

You are absolutely right on David, this is all about enabling the "revolution" is it not?
Many of us do all kinds of post work that could be more ably handled by a high end facility.
High end facilities require high end financing. The point is we want access to the tools.
When digital projection becomes a widespread reality, there will be no need for the filmout.
That will be the final brick in the theatrical wall; true indie distribution models will follow.

 

[Eric Edwards]

I agree with David as well...I mean the point of the Red was to open doors for us little guys...but then to say...Now you need to go to a post-production house and do it right completely is against the point of a low-cost camera and indie filmmakers with low-budgets...If the intention was to make a low-cost camera and then say sorry, no plausible way for you guys to edit in your means, go to a post-production house, then what is the point? It seems that if your intention is to open up doors for the little guy, you need to open all the doors, not just one.

Just my two cents.

 

[Fredrik Harreschou]

Can somebody please explain exactly what a pull list is? I'm confused by this:

If you could access the necessary frames with handles, it would really streamline the RED workflow because of the massive amounts of data in a 4K or 2K uncompressed stream.

Isn't this what a pull list is, a list of necessary frames with handles?

 

[Curran Giddens]

Maybe Assimilate will have a reduser special price on a SCRATCH Conform Module as RedCine plugin.

Check out the Conform video tutorial for Scratch.
http://tutorials.assimilated.us/

This would allow redusers a conform solution now, but also give people a little taste of SCRATCH. Maybe Assimilate will sell a few more seats for their complete finishing suite.


Here is a quote from Stuart I found in my archive:

"I'm guess maybe you can "side-step" some of these issues (which CRIPPLED SC FINAL TOUCH and gave me many, many headaches) because (as far as I know) REDCINE isn't going to "conform" - theoretically it is just going to IDENTIFY which media is in the project via EDL/XLM - and then create a PULL LIST (I assume with a handle option) and then allow you to batch process/scale/crop/add LUT, etc. and then let the FINAL POST APPLICATION conform. So, maybe the best approach is to make sure that ALL MEDIA in the "timeline" is in the PULL LIST - this way, if the editor has not "collapsed" the timeline correctly, it doesn't matter - as all media (used or not) that is in the timeline is in the PULL LIST - "

-Stuart English 01-26-2007

 

[David Battistella]

Can somebody please explain exactly what a pull list is? I'm confused by this:



Isn't this what a pull list is, a list of necessary frames with handles?

The following is my opinion based on what I have seen so far.

Currently you can manage workflows for AVID, FCP, Premiere, or just about any post system on the market.

It is easiest with FCP because REDCODE is FCP enabled and that makes things move a bit more quickly.

With any other system it is fast and easy to create quicktime files to edit with on any system. You create the files, edit the files and you can create a, Pull list, edl, etc.

This is where the workflow gets tougher, BUT ONLY IF you want to go back to 2k or 4K. In the AVID you would have to create 4K of every take and then manually matchback the TC (unless you are using scrathc which reads RED's r3d files.

So if there was a small app (as Mike Prevette alsosuggested in this thread) that would allw you to access only the frames of the good takes, from an edl or xml. Then the workflow gets opened up to ay app that can use 4K and 2K.

Scratch is still currently the only 4K instant solution, but I suspect that will change quite quickly.

David

 

[M Most]

I am not suggesting replacing a finishing tool. I am suggesting a more efficient way of dealing with RED 4K files for finishing purposes.

Does it make sense to create 4K tiffs of every shot before you edit? I don't think so.

Does it make sense to conform every frame of every shot that is in your final cut? I don't think so.

Does it make sense for someone who is not particularly familiar with final delivery formats and specs, and technical requirements to meet them, to manipulate the source files that will be used and in turn, possibly cause even more work -and thus more expense in the long run - for those who create the final delivery elements in the process? I don't think so (but I see it every day, on projects that come to us shot on everything from HDV to HVX200 to F900). Does it make sense for someone doing a basic creative edit to have to keep track of, store, and somehow have very quick retrieval of 8-10 TB of material when their real need is to make creative editorial decisions? I don't think so.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Especially if you're basically wasting time, money, and effort on it.

All I was suggesting was a small app (some people have already written them) that would make EXTRACTING THE NECESSARY FRAMES.

I think you read a bit to much into my post and jumped to conclusions.

Maybe. But what you're talking about is really for final finishing of high end masters. In the desktop environment you seem to be referring to, this doesn't accomplish much if the generated files are uncompressed images of 2K or higher, because there likely won't be any way to play them in real time and check them. Not without a lot of horsepower, that is.

Now, if Redcine or something similar could generate truncated Redcode Raw files, or possibly a Redcode Raw frame sequence - both of which I have suggested to Red - that might change the situation considerably. Although I would still say that knowledge of delivery elements and proper viewing environment is still valuable and required for any high quality deliverable.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Guys... relax.

It has been stated several times by RED that REDCINE will have a pull-list functionality. So that will replace your "little app."

This is the first release, and you've had it for exactly 48 hours.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Simon Blackledge]

I ain't slept for 48 hours

 

[Greg M]

Guys... relax.

It has been stated several times by RED that REDCINE will have a pull-list functionality. So that will replace your "little app."

This is the first release, and you've had it for exactly 48 hours.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

come on Lucas...48 hrs we should be on v3. Get your act together.:biggrin:

 

[Jason Francois]

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

One of my favorite personal quotes. Applies to everything in life, especially filmmaking.

 

[Bill Goehring]

Yeah, kind of like just because you CAN be a filmmaker/editor/DI Tech doesn't mean you SHOULD...and do it for a fraction of what I'd charge, put me out of a job, or force me to participate in an open and free market like most of the rest of us in a Laissez-faire society.

Sounds like something a typesetter might have said to a graphic artist circa 1985 or a film editor to an non-linear video editor circa 1995 or a digital intermediate technologist to a filmmaker circa 2005. Good luck with that.

The DI Desktop is coming! The DI Desktop is coming!

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

come on Lucas...48 hrs we should be on v3. Get your act together.:biggrin:

Come on cut them some slack. It's unreasonable to release more than one new version per 48 hour period... we should be on v2.:sorcerer:

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Especially if you're basically wasting time, money, and effort on it.

You're right except missing one key fact about many indie productions. They value neither their time or effort and as a result costs very little extra money.

When you've got no job. No other work you could be doing and have 0 overhead the economies of process get really out whack and conforming and grading a feature in AE starts to make some sort of strange economic sense. I know this is true of all my spec projects. I *could* get something done in 1/4 the time by say... going to a local colorist and be done in an hour for $500 in a Davinci session. But Combustion after hours in my free time costs me... my free time. Innefficient? Yes. Affordable? Yes.

 

[David Battistella]

This is all so dumb.

Everyone will chose to do it how they wish.

I am being picked on for suggesting an efficient way of extracting data.

Loose the chip, it's unappealing.

I'm out of this thread.

david






David