REDCINE tip...

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Are there any Python based EDL tools available out there? If there was something like Automatic Duck for Python that would read EDL files have a number of functions that could be called you could do some really nice integration with a command line REDCine.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Luki, what the ability of the pull list to do is what we are amiably discussing. There's a vibe around here that asking questions or suggesting possible upgrades is now characterized as whining or complaining. Huh ? That's bs, IMHO.

Questions or suggesting upgrades is fine. You're not whining or complaining.

But you're interpreting strong and spirited discussion as an attack. Mmost is someone I've known for a long time and he and I have had quite a few spirited and sometimes aggressive discussions about all kinds of things. He's a really, really smart guy with an incredible amount of experience in pretty much every area of post. And he sometimes has a short fuse and a sharp tongue. So what? At the end of the day, having an idea and being able to back it up is the core of most innovation. Having been part of many product development teams, I can tell you that it is usually a collegial process, but can also be combative, tense and political. There is almost always a lot at stake, and there are a lot of smart people with good ideas and fighting spirits involved. Come to think of it, it's an awful lot like a shoot...

If you want a feature, prove why it's necessary in the face of opposition. If the idea survives, then it's probably a good one. But don't expect everybody to go, "gee whiz, that's great, let's do it!" Please don't interpret a strong comment as an attack - it's not. It's just a strong comment.

...my USD$.02.

So, you bring in an edl, make a pull list, and then you have to manually get every clip render to format of choice (to LTO3's or hd) for example, to take to a post house where you will spend $800 /hour to have them conform it for you. Or is there a way to do a manual conform in a future version. ? Or is there a way to manually make a timeline in r3d and then export it as dpx (example) to take into a cg app (like color, sg hd, ae). ?

To answer these questions linearly...

1) REDCINE will be able to take in a pull-list, and batch export clips to your format of choice.

2) If you are getting charged $800/hr. for a conform and you are *accepting* that rate without a fight, then that's a problem. When you are dealing with a salesperson at a post house, think "car shopping." Approach the negotiation the same way you would buying a car. Shop around, play one off another, lie, cheat, steal, etc. There is the rate card... and then there is what you actually pay.

3) You can do a "manual" conform right now, if you want. Export an A-mode EDL with Clip Names in CMX comment lines from your editorial platform. Print that out and sit in front of REDCINE with your clips and go to town.

4) You can manually make a timeline in REDCINE right now and export as a series of clips into a variety of formats.

what is the storage requirement for a typical 90 minutes dpx at 1080p (final )?

Assume you are dealing with 10-bit DPX files.

That means that each pixel has a 10-bit value for R, G, and B. Add 2 additional bits to that as padding, and you have 32 bits, or 4 bytes as a value for each pixel. I'll assign that a value of B'.

To figure out storage requirements for 10-bit DPX for any format:

X = X resolution of a frame (e.g.: 1920)
Y = Y resolution of a frame (e.g.: 1080)
F = framerate (e.g.: 24fps)

(X * Y * B') = number of bytes in a frame.
(X * Y * B') / (1024 * 1024) = number of megabytes in a frame
((X * Y * B') / (1024 * 1024)) * F = number of megabytes in a second

Let's assign that a value of S.

S * 60 * 60 = number of megabytes per hour
(S * 60 * 60) / 1024 = number of gigabytes per hour.

That should let you figure out DPX storage for any format.

One other thing, and forgive another question, but is the scaling option (not preview or qt proxies) for final shots to take into finishing apps ready ? And do we scale from the raw files or have to render DPX's first ? It would save a lot of $$$ if we could first scale and render what's needed before final cg and mix , deliverables ...

Short answer - You can scale directly out of REDCINE with a wide variety of filters - Linear, Lanczos, Gaussian, Mitchell, etc.

:beer:

:martini:

Cheers,

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I apologize for being glib... my point is that no matter what we do, there is a need for more. It is human nature to ask for it... the joke was not targeted at you but at all of us.

At some point, we will try to solve as many problems as possible. But we can't do it all in a year and a half. The problem is that we have achieved so much so quickly, there is an expectation for us to fill in every gap. We just can't do that right now (and please don't ask "well when then?").

Of course an EDL and full conform is important. But it is not on our immediate roadmap. We have our hands full with other stuff right now.

Jim

Hey

You guys are doing a fantastic thing here.
I hope (and think) we all recognize that.

I really appreciate the rather bold step of adding a new PL wich solves backfocus issues.
If the new mainboard handles high exposures even better, then wow.

Money-wise you're putting out a camera in the HPX-500 range.
Qualitywise you are (at some level or another) going for everyone, including Dalsa (pick it up and shoot 4k without a fridge, and who can buy one anyway), F23 (well we can do dual HD-SDI, too -, SI (well, we DO have a full frame sensor... and did anyone mention 4k), Viper (it's downsampled to 1080, right?) and just about anything out there, and film... (who wants to save 3/4 of the filmstock budget on a 2mill dollar movie around here).

So
We all appreciate that, and all recognize the tremendous amount of work and general education/promotion - you guys put into this, and many of your late answers suggests you know you've already won - Where it matters.

Sure. For some reason or another we all want some or all of what you mention. Hey. That's how this community work.

BUT
Most of all we just join in the fun of the "everything is subject to change" business, while some of us try to find cameras for rent, while we wait.

Cheers!

Gunleik

 

[Michael Morlan]

Consider the Discreet/Kinetics/Autodesk model used for 3D Studio Max. As a low-end 3D solution (compared to the Silicon Graphics systems of the time) they opened up their API to everyone and a plethora (yes, plethora) of plugins and scripts were written by end users. If something was particularly cool and powerful, D/K/A would buy it and wrap it into their next release. They got free development for far out features while they focused on the core features that were selling seats.

Recently, D/K/A bought Maya. Now D/K/A dominates the 3D world.

This could be the ideal dev model for RED.

Michael

 

[jbeale]

To figure out storage requirements for 10-bit DPX for any format:

X = X resolution of a frame (e.g.: 1920)
Y = Y resolution of a frame (e.g.: 1080)
F = framerate (e.g.: 24fps)

(X * Y * B') = number of bytes in a frame.
(X * Y * B') / (1024 * 1024) = number of megabytes in a frame
((X * Y * B') / (1024 * 1024)) * F = number of megabytes in a second

Let's assign that a value of S.

S * 60 * 60 = number of megabytes per hour
(S * 60 * 60) / 1024 = number of gigabytes per hour.

To fill in some numbers, for 10-bit DPX at 1080p, 24fps you have 190 MB/sec
and 667 GB/hour. That's quite a bit of data, but if you need uncompressed then there you are.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Consider the Discreet/Kinetics/Autodesk model used for 3D Studio Max. As a low-end 3D solution (compared to the Silicon Graphics systems of the time) they opened up their API to everyone and a plethora (yes, plethora) of plugins and scripts were written by end users. If something was particularly cool and powerful, D/K/A would buy it and wrap it into their next release. They got free development for far out features while they focused on the core features that were selling seats.

Recently, D/K/A bought Maya. Now D/K/A dominates the 3D world.

This could be the ideal dev model for RED.

Michael

Of course Autodesk bought Maya with Autocad profits probably more than max's.