Red "Weapon" Name Poll - Change it or not?

[Clayton Burkhart]

But the TSA doesn't say that it does. I'm not saying there won't be incidents, foolish ones. I have encountered my share of foolish airline security dumb-assery. Many of us BOMB EVF owners travel with it regularly, not having issues. Traveling with the BOMB EVF, or a hypothetical camera named WEAPON is safe. Or it's safe to traverse TSA checkpoints with it, as well as most checkpoints in developed countries when rational people are on duty. It is safe in the same way air travel is safe. Most of the time you'll be alright, but sometimes shit happens and you might die. IMO, all the doomsday mutterings a product name stamped on something will cause hold-ups or even detainment or confiscation at TSA checkpoints is akin to saying we should just not fly because airplanes can crash.

FWIW, Weapon cameras have already been through TSA checkpoints.

The world is much larger than the TSA and much larger than America. Which shows just how limited the thinking aournd the naming and this whole issue is. Only in America would the naming of a camera called "Weapon" be considered normal and acceptable. That is how prevalent the gun culture is there. As an American who has lived abroad in various countries for almost 23 years I can assure you the concern around this issue is entirely legitimate.

 

[Ryan Sauve]

The world is much larger than the TSA and much larger than America. Which shows just how limited the thinking aournd the naming and this whole issue is. Only in America would the naming of a camera called "Weapon" be considered normal and acceptable. That is how prevalent the gun culture is there. As an American who has lived abroad in various countries for almost 23 years I can assure you the concern around this issue is entirely legitimate.

This. Listen to this please. To be fair though, this probably won't affect me personally but I can empathize

 

[David Battistella]

Where is the satisfaction point?

RED has respondead with a Stealth option at time of order with a tick box. In terms of carnet it can be item,
DIGiTAL CINEMA Camera
Brand, RED,
model-stealth,
serial number 8888, etc

yet this does not satisfy some? The thread continues.

Now we are talking about individuals, TSA policy, guns on tee shirts, why or why not people get stopped, behaviour and all kinds of other things. the BOMB EVF which was heavily discussed at the time.

Geting back back to the question.

Finish the sentence...

I will be satisfied when RED __________
or
I am satisfied with how RED had dealt with this.

maybe that is a new poll and a new thread as this one has been beaten like a rented mule.

 

[David Battistella]

I will add that there have been good point raised and lively discussion.

IMHO RED has responded with the concerns in a way that is sensitive to the concerns raised here.

Gun Culture in America (while a very valid and flashpoint discussion) does stray away from the core issue at hand here which I deem to be.


1- a group of users who deem the name problematic and offensive
2- a group who love it or don't mind it
3- a group tha is nuteral or understands the name as branding, marketing, RED culture etc. (this group can fall into one or two above)

With these core camera name issues present RED, listened, then acted. People now have the option to own RED stealth or red NO-name, where nothing appears on the camera body that suggests anything but a black box with a lens mount on it and probably (I don't know) the name red somewhere.

i respect all that has transpired here but the core issue. I feel has been resolved. Maybe not to everyone's satisfaction or individual taste.

Battistella

 

[Clayton Burkhart]

I will add that there have been good point raised and lively discussion.

IMHO RED has responded with the concerns in a way that is sensitive to the concerns raised here.

Gun Culture in America (while a very valid and flashpoint discussion) does stray away from the core issue at hand here which I deem to be.


1- a group of users who deem the name problematic and offensive
2- a group who love it or don't mind it
3- a group tha is nuteral or understands the name as branding, marketing, RED culture etc. (this group can fall into one or two above)

With these core camera name issues present RED, listened, then acted. People now have the option to own RED stealth or red NO-name, where nothing appears on the camera body that suggests anything but a black box with a lens mount on it and probably (I don't know) the name red somewhere.

i respect all that has transpired here but the core issue. I feel has been resolved. Maybe not to everyone's satisfaction or individual taste.

Battistella

While I agree that an adequate resolution has been arrived at, the continuing lack of sensitivity and self justification for such a poor and inadequate choice of names remains astounding to me.

 

[Nils Ruinet]

Where is the satisfaction point?

RED has respondead with a Stealth option at time of order with a tick box. In terms of carnet it can be item,
DIGiTAL CINEMA Camera
Brand, RED,
model-stealth,
serial number 8888, etc

yet this does not satisfy some? The thread continues.

Now we are talking about individuals, TSA policy, guns on tee shirts, why or why not people get stopped, behaviour and all kinds of other things. the BOMB EVF which was heavily discussed at the time.

Geting back back to the question.

Finish the sentence...

I will be satisfied when RED __________
or
I am satisfied with how RED had dealt with this.

maybe that is a new poll and a new thread as this one has been beaten like a rented mule.

David,
the fact that Red now offers a "stealth" version is an answer to some of the concerns. I think everyone appreciates that they did that, and I amongst probably many others will get this stealth version instead of the branded one if I go the upgrade route (which will probably be the case).
This solves some issues (TSA concerns mainly and a too visible "Weapon" brand on the camera).

Still, the name stays, and it will still be called "Weapon" when we discuss it with clients or anyone else. Because even if it's not written on the body of the camera, it's still its name. We can't just call it "the new Red" (like Apple did "The new iPad"), or "the Red that shall not be named" ! ;-) In the end we'll have to call it "Weapon", wether we like it or not.
I'm not too excited at the idea of having to explain again and again to clients and co-workers that, "yes, the naming is a bit agressive, but come on it's a fantastic camera, don't get stuck on the name !"
And for the record, I did like "Epic", "Scarlet" and "Dragon".

I'm sorry to say, but "Weapon" doesn't have a very positive connotation to say the least in most countries, actually rather the opposite, even more so amongst film-makers. I don't see many places where it would be considered "cool". It is not a deal-breaker, but yes it is an issue. Even if the name isn't written in big letters on the camera.

So, to finish your sentence :
"I would be satisfied if Red changed its naming scheme to something less military related, starting at least with the Weapon name."
But hey, as a company they are entitled to chose any name they like. And we, as their customers, have the right to voice out our opinions and concerns about the choices they make. They've proved many times in the past that they listen to feedback, so it does make sense to discuss this while it's not too late, as the product hasn't been officially announced yet. Even more so when 65% of the people say they'd like Red to change the name (and less than 20% actually like it). Doesn't that say/mean something ?
And believe me, I'd rather be discussing features than names.

 

[Jens Jakob Thorsen]

David,
the fact that Red now offers a "stealth" version is an answer to some of the concerns. I think everyone appreciates that they did that, and I amongst probably many others will get this stealth version instead of the branded one if I go the upgrade route (which will probably be the case).
This solves some issues (TSA concerns mainly and a too visible "Weapon" brand on the camera).

Still, the name stays, and it will still be called "Weapon" when we discuss it with clients or anyone else. Because even if it's not written on the body of the camera, it's still its name. We can't just call it "the new Red" (like Apple did "The new iPad"), or "the Red that shall not be named" ! ;-) In the end we'll have to call it "Weapon", wether we like it or not.
I'm not too excited at the idea of having to explain again and again to clients and co-workers that, "yes, the naming is a bit agressive, but come on it's a fantastic camera, don't get stuck on the name !"
And for the record, I did like "Epic", "Scarlet" and "Dragon".

I'm sorry to say, but "Weapon" doesn't have a very positive connotation to say the least in most countries, actually rather the opposite, even more so amongst film-makers. I don't see many places where it would be considered "cool". It is not a deal-breaker, but yes it is an issue. Even if the name isn't written in big letters on the camera.

So, to finish your sentence :
"I would be satisfied if Red changed its naming scheme to something less military related, starting at least with the Weapon name."
But hey, as a company they are entitled to chose any name they like. And we, as their customers, have the right to voice out our opinions and concerns about the choices they make. They've proved many times in the past that they listen to feedback, so it does make sense to discuss this while it's not too late, as the product hasn't been officially announced yet. Even more so when 65% of the people say they'd like Red to change the name (and less than 20% actually like it). Doesn't that say/mean something ?
And believe me, I'd rather be discussing features than names.

This!

 

[Jens Jakob Thorsen]

The world is much larger than the TSA and much larger than America. Which shows just how limited the thinking aournd the naming and this whole issue is. Only in America would the naming of a camera called "Weapon" be considered normal and acceptable. That is how prevalent the gun culture is there. As an American who has lived abroad in various countries for almost 23 years I can assure you the concern around this issue is entirely legitimate.

While I agree that an adequate resolution has been arrived at, the continuing lack of sensitivity and self justification for such a poor and inadequate choice of names remains astounding to me.

And this!

 

[Terry VerHaar]

David - I think the continued commentary here stems from the bigger issue that the name opened up; that of a discomfort/dislike of RED's overall brand image. I count myself among people who are genuine RED loyalists and enthusiasts. And I am that because the product is a superior product that meets my needs; even helps to shape my needs. But, I have never really liked their branding and have commented to that end on this forum several times over the years. Do I expect them to change it? Not really. Would I like it if they did? Very much. For many, the comments here are just some venting; the ability to finally speak up without it being just an off-topic rant.

 

[Frank Glencairn]

Why choose a name that could potentially cause trouble for your customers?

Ahhh come on...

the only bomb I ever saw that had actually "Bomb" written on it, was delivered from the ACME warehouse, where the coyote orders his stuff to get the roadrunner.

Nobody in his right mind would ever think, that a real weapon has "Weapon" written on it.
Have you ever seen a rifle that says "Rifle" or a tank that has "Tank" written all over it?
This idea is something out of a 1950s Batman comic book.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Ahhh come on...

the only bomb I ever saw that had actually "Bomb" written on it, was delivered from the ACME warehouse, where the coyote orders his stuff to get the roadrunner.

Nobody in his right mind would ever think, that a real weapon has "Weapon" written on it.
Have you ever seen a rifle that says "Rifle" or a tank that has "Tank" written all over it?
This idea is something out of a 1950s Batman comic book.

Don't underestimate the stupidity of Security personnel, specially from airports. Not hired from being the brightest people in the pot. Not stating any country names, but look at my location and I can assure you that throughout the region, I've had my share of idiotic questionnaires...

 

[Scott Crawley]

Here's what I'm hearing: "The word BOMB doesn't sway the TSA. And even when the TSA says it does... well... you're stupid it doesn't."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

I can respect that.

Another interpretation might be; Security knows your EVF says Bomb on it and they let it pass anyway because they don't give a fuck what it says. They care about what it can do. They might delay you however if you behave like a c*%t.

caveat emptor: Not every country has freedom of speech or expression.

 

[Phil Holland]

While I agree that an adequate resolution has been arrived at, the continuing lack of sensitivity and self justification for such a poor and inadequate choice of names remains astounding to me.

as the product hasn't been officially announced yet. Even more so when 65% of the people say they'd like Red to change the name (and less than 20% actually like it). Doesn't that say/mean something ?
And believe me, I'd rather be discussing features than names.

Both the founder and the president of Red have been here on Reduser officially announcing and discussing Weapon. Do note that the 65%-ish that have posted a tick in the pole it those who have the issue with the name who have sought out this post at all and our members of this forum. The other 35% like it or don't care and there are more of those out there as well. All good. Some people don't like it, some people do, some people don't care. Everybody has voiced their thoughts and opinions. We all have them.

We've gone in circles here as some only see guns when they see Weapon, there's others who see the larger scopes that the name covers.

At this point since there's been images across the internet and industry, the president stating that the name is not going anywhere, and also the odd precedent of feeling like anybody outside of a privately held company should have any real say on the camera name and general branding (branding that has worked well for Red, though certainly inspires a polarizing effect at times). Red does and has done a decent job of listening and their solution to critics is this "stealth" option. That's where it stands.

While discussion is good, it's not going to change at this point. Weapon has been announced. The industry knows it's coming.

I agree that discussing features rather than names is actually way more relevant to Weapon as a camera and tool. We're about a month away now from the "full reveal".

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Where is the satisfaction point?

Finish the sentence...

I will be satisfied when RED __________
or
I am satisfied with how RED had dealt with this.

I will be satisfied when RED assures us that these concerns will be taken into account as they move forward with branding accessories and next generations of cameras, so we don't have to go through this again, or keep wondering when the other shoe will drop.

But that's asking RED to change its culture, which ain't gonna happen. And so, I went back and deleted all my posts on this topic, because at the end of the day, the only decision point RED affords me, as does any other corporation, is whether I buy in or not. And that's that.

I agree this thread isn't going anywhere fast. People will eventually vote with their wallets. RED will move ahead with its vision and accept those who bail out as necessary collateral damage (see, I can do militaristic jingo too).

And that's the way it shall be.

 

[Milan S.]

I can respect that.

Another interpretation might be; Security knows your EVF says Bomb on it and they let it pass anyway because they don't give a fuck what it says. They care about what it can do. They might delay you however if you behave like a c*%t.

caveat emptor: Not every country has freedom of speech or expression.

Not a nice thing to say as a guest in somebody else's living room, did you know that the people in the kitchen can hear you?

Also, the airport security at LAX is not the only one in the world.

 

[Ben Graham]

This thread is developmentally delayed.

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

Not a nice thing to say as a guest in somebody else's living room, did you know that the people in the kitchen can hear you?
.

If 65% of my guests said the wallpaper in my living room gave them a headache I would change my wallpaper.

 

[Ben Graham]

I would ask them to leave and go have a headache somewhere else.

 

[Stacey Spears]

Wall paper is so 1970s and should be removed period!

There is no pleasure in visiting LAX. I try and fly into Burbank as often as possible. Sadly Burbank has limited hours and is more expensive, but at least I don't have to take a bus to get a rental car. And then there is John Wayne, nothing more nerve wracking than takeoffs or landings at that airport. Vegas, Palm Springs and Denver are a lot of fun when its windy.

 

[D Fuller]

I would ask them to leave and go have a headache somewhere else.

And I'm sure they would oblige your request. And the next time you invited them over, they (remembering their headache and your response) would be likely to decline the invitation. That's why this discussion is important.