Red "Weapon" Name Poll - Change it or not?

[Scott Crawley]

Not sure if serious. Really. Wow.

What do you mean? Have you ever had to scan a crowd for suspicious looking behavior? Would you know what to look for or what not to look for?

Edit:
But hey, maybe Mr. Stilling resembled a six foot coyote in the eyes of the agent he ran into.

I don't know what actually happened to him but I can bet you if an agent asked him to power up his camera and he responded with the same charm and grace that he just showed me the agent would almost certainly feel inclined to bust his balls.

 

[D Fuller]

Edit: I am told that it is a matter of policy to ask travelers to demonstrate the function of all electronics. That wouldn't necessarily mean that agents will demand that of every device, but it may be policy.

Really? If that's policy, then every TSA agent in the country is out of compliance. And if it was done, TSA lines would be three or four times as long.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Really? If that's policy, then every TSA agent in the country is out of compliance. And if it was done, TSA lines would be three or four times as long.

It clearly is not required for every device on every flight. There is more info on the TSA blog that I shared, though it is not much. In some areas the requirements are more strict than others. I don't have all of the particulars myself, it is not what I do, but to do so certainly falls within their discretion in any instance while in some others it may be required.

From the blog dated JULY 8, 2014:
"Electronic devices are already screened daily, but now, security officers might ask that you power up your devices, including cell phones."

 

[D Fuller]

It clearly is not required for every device on every flight. There is more info on the TSA blog that I shared, though it is not much. In some areas the requirements are more strict than others. I don't have all of the particulars myself, it is not what I do, but to do so certainly falls within their discretion in any instance while in some others it may be required.

From the blog dated JULY 8, 2014:
"Electronic devices are already screened daily, but now, security officers might ask that you power up your devices, including cell phones."

There is a big difference between "it is a matter of policy to ask travelers to demonstrate the function of all electronics" and "security officers might ask that you power up your devices". One is clearly FUD, the other is a reasonable, discretionary security policy.

Now back to your previously scheduled thread.

 

[Scott Crawley]

There is a big difference between "it is a matter of policy to ask travelers to demonstrate the function of all electronics" and "security officers might ask that you power up your devices". One is clearly FUD, the other is a reasonable, discretionary security policy.

Now back to your previously scheduled thread.

It is policy that gives them the discretion. That was my meaning. I apologize for being unclear. Alas, I am but a shitty writer.

Back to the thread.

Food for thought. Did you know that some x-ray and scanning devices can read the name inscriptions on your device in spite of the tape? Not that TSA gives a flying shit what it says.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Well, it does. I had a TSA agent hold me for a while and I had to do a lot of explaining about the EVF. He was very close to confiscating it. I had to power up The camera and connect it to show it really did what I said it would. A piece of tape now adorns my EVF.

Seems like that TSA agent was being a complete ass. That aside, a piece of tape is meaningless when over the name. It says "BOMB" loud and clear when it goes through the X-Ray machine, as the tape is non-existent from that perspective. No way to know now, but I'd bet you a cold pint of frothy brew that the name had nothing to do with this unless the TSA agent wanted to make an issue of it for no good reason, or just to screw with you. If the name was a significant part of the issue, then the agent should be reprimanded. As with the new "Weapon," TSA has been served official notice of the product. And I can guaranty you were not the first person to traverse a TSA checkpoint with a BOMB EVF. I've taken mine through dozens of times. Only had to demonstrate the EPIC kit on two occasions -- mentioned way back in the thread. I do often get a few questions, usually they go something like "Holy crap, is that a camera?" Flying in and out of LAX or SNA, I often get the "hey, it's another RED camera!"

They recognize them in Denver and sometimes in Chicago too. If the timing for Weapon works out, it may go with me in August to the UK and I'll be terrorizing the Scottish Highlands with it..

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but that's what this entire thread is apparently for. haha...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The use of tape to cover up names like Bomb or Weapon seems to come up a lot around here. I just want to say that from my experiences in traveling and my ongoing relationships with members in military and law enforcement agencies, that I would advise against this practice of taping things up to hide them. Because that's exactly what it looks like you're doing. When you try to mask over stuff, it becomes suspicious and the X-Ray and high frequency IR/UV scanners reveal all anyway.

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7431640.stm

Gun T-shirt 'was a security risk'

A man wearing a T-shirt depicting a cartoon character holding a gun was stopped from boarding a flight by the security at Heathrow's Terminal 5.

........Mr Jayakody said he had to strip and change his T-shirt there before he was allowed to board his flight.



And then there was the family who were told they could not fly with their sons 3 inch toy gun from an action figure...Im sure there are more examples.....

How long till a kid takes lego bricks onto a flight and makes something that gets the plane turned round? I would NOT be surprised to hear if that happens. Really. Given the climate its not that hard to imagine.

Does it make any sense WHATSOEVER? Not really...Neither does the real examples of kids getting suspended for pointing fingers in playgrounds or bent pastries being construed as guns in schools. People in authority go above and beyond the call of duty...some of them should be working in car washes...all of them have the power to screw up your travel. Sounds like Daniel met one...

I own Beretta, Heckler Koch and Glock tshirts. I wouldn't wear them for a flight. Would I wear a WEAPON branded RED tshirt when flying ? If I got a change of clothing and don't mind the hassle and delay?

Weirder things happen than people getting stopped with the word WEAPON written on a block of black metal.

 

[Kyle Kelley]

I personally am not that worried about travel (I've flown internationally with the BOMB EVF without trouble), I just think the name is dumb. Certainly it's RED's prerogative to name their products whatever they choose, but do we really need to embrace this hyper masculine military industrial nomenclature? It all just feels a little overly macho.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7431640.stm

Gun T-shirt 'was a security risk'

A man wearing a T-shirt depicting a cartoon character holding a gun was stopped from boarding a flight by the security at Heathrow's Terminal 5.

........Mr Jayakody said he had to strip and change his T-shirt there before he was allowed to board his flight.

Hehe. That story is 7 years and has been debunked multiple times. No one got detained at Heathrow for wearing a Transformers shirt. In fact the guy who made this claim didn't even have an airline ticket for the day and date the incident supposedly happened, nor was there ever any record of such an incident (the BBC article says as much). Puuhleeeze.

And then there was the family who were told they could not fly with their sons 3 inch toy gun from an action figure...Im sure there are more examples.....

I'm sure there are more examples too. I've seen boxes of stuff that gets confiscated and most of it is obvious as to why. I'd say about 10% of it makes no sense... Then again, a lot still comes back to attitude and demeanor of the travelers and how they interact with security personnel.

But just as you can dig up example of silly incidents that defy logic, I can attest to the millions of people who travel daily without any such incidents ever occurring. Yes, weird things happen, but not often at all.

How long till a kid takes lego bricks onto a flight and makes something that gets the plane turned round? I would NOT be surprised to hear if that happens. Really. Given the climate its not that hard to imagine.

Interesting example, seeing how I could make a rather functional "gun" out of a handful of the right Lego parts, a couple rubber bands and a ballpoint pen. I know because I used to build all kinds of crazy stuff when I was a kid.

I also have enough training and survival skills to know that under the right circumstances common objects like pens, pencils, the belt around my waist, and countless other things can all be lethal weapons. A weapon is about intended use -- as to when people make it so. It's so silly... I'm not allowed to bring a 2-inch keychain pocket knife on a plane, whether it's attached to a bundle of keys or not. But my wife can bring a bag full of knitting needles and crochet hooks. Back to the keychain thing, I can bring the ring of keys and I would choose them over the knife any day if I needed to hurt someone...

I own Beretta, Heckler Koch and Glock tshirts. I wouldn't wear them for a flight. Would I wear a WEAPON branded RED tshirt when flying ? If I got a change of clothing and don't mind the hassle and delay?

Funny... I own a Baretta and a couple Glocks, but never had the shirts.

Weirder things happen than people getting stopped with the word WEAPON written on a block of black metal.

No one is going to make you buy one that says Weapon on it, so why are we still talking about this? But I bet you may still be asked to demonstrate it from time to time and if you act all shifty and weird about it or irritated, they may just threaten to confiscate it.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Here's what I'm hearing: "The word BOMB doesn't sway the TSA. And even when the TSA says it does... well... you're stupid it doesn't."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

But the TSA doesn't say that it does. I'm not saying there won't be incidents, foolish ones. I have encountered my share of foolish airline security dumb-assery. Many of us BOMB EVF owners travel with it regularly, not having issues. Traveling with the BOMB EVF, or a hypothetical camera named WEAPON is safe. Or it's safe to traverse TSA checkpoints with it, as well as most checkpoints in developed countries when rational people are on duty. It is safe in the same way air travel is safe. Most of the time you'll be alright, but sometimes shit happens and you might die. IMO, all the doomsday mutterings a product name stamped on something will cause hold-ups or even detainment or confiscation at TSA checkpoints is akin to saying we should just not fly because airplanes can crash.

FWIW, Weapon cameras have already been through TSA checkpoints.

 

[Ces Peynetti]

I know because I used to build all kinds of crazy stuff when I was a kid.

Heheh this doesn't surprise me.
-------
We'll have the option to go stealth now. The name is what it is. Some like it. Some other's don't care either way. Others are concerned about hypothetical situations that could happen but haven't yet, just as they could happen with a sharp nail clipper. [This post was written from a Delta plane with a bomb evf in my backpack, if the plane reroutes or I get randomly inspected, we'll know it's an issue, and that they are reading this! heheh]

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

Hehe. That story is 7 years and has been debunked multiple times. No one got detained at Heathrow for wearing a Transformers shirt. In fact the guy who made this claim didn't even have an airline ticket for the day and date the incident supposedly happened, nor was there ever any record of such an incident (the BBC article says as much). Puuhleeeze.




I'm sure there are more examples too. I've seen boxes of stuff that gets confiscated and most of it is obvious as to why. I'd say about 10% of it makes no sense... Then again, a lot still comes back to attitude and demeanor of the travelers and how they interact with security personnel.

But just as you can dig up example of silly incidents that defy logic, I can attest to the millions of people who travel daily without any such incidents ever occurring. Yes, weird things happen, but not often at all.



Interesting example, seeing how I could make a rather functional "gun" out of a handful of the right Lego parts, a couple rubber bands and a ballpoint pen. I know because I used to build all kinds of crazy stuff when I was a kid.

I also have enough training and survival skills to know that under the right circumstances common objects like pens, pencils, the belt around my waist, and countless other things can all be lethal weapons. A weapon is about intended use -- as to when people make it so. It's so silly... I'm not allowed to bring a 2-inch keychain pocket knife on a plane, whether it's attached to a bundle of keys or not. But my wife can bring a bag full of knitting needles and crochet hooks. Back to the keychain thing, I can bring the ring of keys and I would choose them over the knife any day if I needed to hurt someone...



Funny... I own a Baretta and a couple Glocks, but never had the shirts.



No one is going to make you buy one that says Weapon on it, so why are we still talking about this? But I bet you may still be asked to demonstrate it from time to time and if you act all shifty and weird about it or irritated, they may just threaten to confiscate it.

Didn't know the first one was debunked. Maybe he was and my google skills elude me. I don't think the age of the story matters...in fact im sure the TSA have not got better with time. And I read the bbc report as saying he didn't file a complaint which is not the same as debunking him.

Either way on the legitimacy of the tshirt article, we agree there is plenty silly stuff that goes down at screenings. There are some mind boggling examples.

I`ll order the stealth WPN and others can have a nice chit chat with the friendly screeners. I wonder if all TSA agents will get that memo about WEAPON?

Jeff good to hear your Liam Neeson skills are top notch.

... and as I said before I`m a shooter too, who is quite fond of militaria...just I keep that separate from my professional life. There is nothing pro about the WEAPON name...very glad they offered the stealth version.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

And yet, people keep voting and the trend hasn't changed.

 

[Ces Peynetti]

Those who care will want their voices to be heard and vote. Those who don't might not be as motivated, not only to vote, but to even open this thread and read through it. The poll in a way is flawed, but who knows, I may be wrong.

 

[charles lim yi yong]

lol so much for voting... whatever it is the name is insensitive , frankly doesn't reflect any artistic values which are held scared in this industry. . and just a invitation for misunderstanding/trouble.

 

[Phil Holland]

And yet, people keep voting and the trend hasn't changed.

Appreciate the candid discussion and all the feedback.

The name is here to stay.

There are some of you with genuine security concerns and for those that would prefer we will be offering a "stealth" Weapon without the Weapon branding engraved on it... simple check box at the time of order.

And there is a "stealth" option for those with "visible" concerns.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

I understand Phil, and I'm appreciative of the option. I just think it's interesting.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Maybe it's time for some more tease photos Jarred? I'm dying to see more.