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Red "Weapon" Name Poll - Change it or not?

Red "Weapon" Name Poll - Change it or not?

  • Keep the name "Weapon"

    Votes: 91 17.5%
  • Please change the name

    Votes: 339 65.2%
  • I could care less what the name is

    Votes: 90 17.3%

  • Total voters
    520
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I think RED got where they are today in spite of that.

I believe that too. Aesthetically the metal looks great. unfortunately the labels and the milspec stuff = not so much. The internals gets sales..and to a degree I personally like the mechano aspect of the RED eco system.
 
So to paraphrase; Red's customers buy their products in spite of the names.

That is what I've been saying. The name ultimately doesn't matter and history proves that out.

A lot of people claim that the military theme marketing brought Red to where it is today.

I think RED got where they are today in spite of that. They got where they are because they released cameras that they fine tuned and turned fantastic and keep fine tuning and keep making better.
 
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So to paraphrase; Red's customers buy their products in spite of the names.

That is what I've been saying. The name ultimately doesn't matter and history proves that out.

Yes. BUT NOW they have gone past a tipping point. Taking the milspec theme too far. ... For the reasons expressed in this thread.
 
So to paraphrase; Red's customers buy their products in spite of the names.

That is what I've been saying. The name ultimately doesn't matter and history proves that out.

I think it's very true than many people buy Red products in spite of the product names and marketing.

The real question is how much does the military marketing image actually hinder Red sales and overall success?

The results may be surprising.


There's a reason why some producers and directors just can't take Red seriously and it's definitely not the quality of the images that the camera is capable of producing.
This has been frustrating for many of us and I'm sure for Jarred too.

The fact that some people just can't get past Red's military front should be seen as a hint that the marketing strategy is not producing desirable results instead of blaming it on the consumer for not seeing the real value of the camera system because it is fogged by the unnecessarily aggressive image company is trying to create for themselves.
 
What would you say to the statement: "I don't care what they call it as long as it doesn't cause needless hassles"…

My personal thoughts on the subject are more nuanced than that, but of the thousands of names RED might have chosen they picked one of the most problematic one's possible. Yes, logically, the TSA or other security folk should realize that the name is just a name and that no one with actual bad intent would label their weapon; "Weapon". Sadly, fear tends to trump logic and security personnel seem to be screened to avoid hiring anyone with an actual sense of humor.

RED has the right to name their "baby" whatever they like. Full stop. That said, missing an epic sunset because I'm stuck in some security office…

Cheers - #19
 
Well, let's hope they continue to sell in spite of that. But the question is, when is it too much? When is it too far? Don't you think that if they miss even one sale because of the name, then it has gone too far and is a problem?
From what I gather, if they keep the name, some customers will refrain from upgrading...
 
Maybe a few would decide not to upgrade based on the name alone, maybe others would be drawn by it. Second guessing marketing is fool's errand in my book. IAC, I'm sure RED has got the message by now.

FWIW, they can call it "Blair Sucks" and I still want one… ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
Yes. BUT NOW they have gone past a tipping point. Taking the milspec theme too far. ... For the reasons expressed in this thread.

It's a reach man. Weapon is not so different from Bomb. It's actually less specific.

Folks bought the Bomb in spite of it's name, they will do the same with Weapon.

Folks can get on a plane with Bomb, they will get on a plane with Weapon.

No offense to Mr. Nash but declaring a bomb or a weapon at the border is generally a bad idea. Bad guys tend not to do it, and cops know that. They are prudent to double check, but they are unlikely to arrest you for bringing a camera with you. You might get shit if you declare a weapon but do not actually have one.

DARK HELMET
The combination is 1,2,3,4,5? That's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage!

http://youtu.be/a6iW-8xPw3k?t=28s
 
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Well, let's hope they continue to sell in spite of that. But the question is, when is it too much? When is it too far? Don't you think that if they miss even one sale because of the name, then it has gone too far and is a problem?
From what I gather, if they keep the name, some customers will refrain from upgrading...

I'm with you, man. I wish the whole team continued success. OTOH, you can't make everyone happy so no I don't think one lost sale is too many. It isn't a road I'd like to tavel too far down though.

Back in the day if a customer gave Jim shit and said they wouldn't buy because of the name, he might have said they had a bad attitude and Red reserves the right to deny service to anyone with a bad attitude. This is a kinder, gentler Red though. :-)

I think it's very true than many people buy Red products in spite of the product names and marketing.

The real question is how much does the military marketing image actually hinder Red sales and overall success?

The results may be surprising.


There's a reason why some producers and directors just can't take Red seriously and it's definitely not the quality of the images that the camera is capable of producing.
This has been frustrating for many of us and I'm sure for Jarred too.

The fact that some people just can't get past Red's military front should be seen as a hint that the marketing strategy is not producing desirable results instead of blaming it on the consumer for not seeing the real value of the camera system because it is fogged by the unnecessarily aggressive image company is trying to create for themselves.

You may have something there. I don't deny that.

As I point out above, Red is actually much less aggressive these days. When was the last time Jarred told a RedUser publicly to fuck off? =-)
 
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It's a reach man.



vqkyls.png
 
With respect, the poll FWIW does not ask respondents if they think Red has taken mil spec too far, it asks if they would rather see the name changed. I'll wager that some who would like to change the name have other reasons and don't even object to the mil spec theme. Some of the alternate suggestions were similarly aggressive and weapon-like.

:001_tt2:


​

 
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With respect, the poll FWIW does not ask respondents if they think Red has taken mil spec too far, it asks if they would rather see the name changed. I'll wager that some who would like to change the name have other reasons and don't even object to the mil spec theme. Some of the alternate suggestions were similarly aggressive and weapon-like.
I agree with that, i like the mil spec theme. But onset "Weapon" means a bunch of specific thing that effect cost & safety(i.e. if weapon is on the daily shot list, better be approved by exec, often add's a extra person to the crew like the weapon wrangler, add's time to all shot times to hand out and gather the weapons, different times depending on weapon type, etc ..]. I think the huge films have those processes in place and the extra people are onset anyway, but for me I avoid like a plague anything on the shot list like weapon, car crash, explosions - since it will drastically effect my small budgets. Also very few people onset will realize that weapon is a camera, or worse will get confused, which basically means people can't use the word "weapon" to refer to the camera. Also a lot of sets are mixed camera's, so it's common for someone to ask to "bring overthe epic" rather then bring over the red. I have noticed that professional crews are very specific on the words they use onset so using the "red" word for everything goes a bit against the grain(i.e. i can't follow half the words the grips & lighting guys use, also these words are used by the rental house and entire chain to make sure the right stuff is at the right place on the right day ... so i can't see using the word "red camera" to replace the word "red epic camera").
 
I am only gong to post on this thread once.

Here it is: (From Miriam-Webster)

: something (such as a gun, knife, club, or bomb) that is used for fighting or attacking someone or for defending yourself when someone is attacking you

: something (such as a skill, idea, or tool) that is used to win a contest or achieve something

Usage:
assault with a deadly weapon
The pitcher's slider is his most effective weapon.
a new weapon in the fight against cancer
The mayor's campaign unleashed its secret weapon.

You pick what a word means....
 
I am only gong to post on this thread once.

Here it is: (From Miriam-Webster)

: something (such as a gun, knife, club, or bomb) that is used for fighting or attacking someone or for defending yourself when someone is attacking you

: something (such as a skill, idea, or tool) that is used to win a contest or achieve something

Usage:
assault with a deadly weapon
The pitcher's slider is his most effective weapon.
a new weapon in the fight against cancer
The mayor's campaign unleashed its secret weapon.

You pick what a word means....

You do pick the definition of a word but 99.9% of people who hear the word "weapon" will have a vision of a gun or a knife or a bomb. All objects designed to end life. It's a horrible name for a camera, a juvenile, lazy name that pretty much disgusts me. I have shrugged off most of the "boys playing soldiers" aspects of red but calling a new camera a "weapon" is really a wtf moment and although it sounds melodramatic, I really have to consider my continued support of the company.
 
I'll just pose a hypothetical question here.

If there is a camera on the market that produces images you like and has the workflow you desire does it matter what it's name is?

My long standing personal opinion is if it looks like a watermelon with a lens sticking out of it and is called "Juicy and Sticky", if it's making the images I want to capture I'd have no problem shooting with it.

Like or dislike the name, that's the real question I'm thinking exists here.

More or less if the name is getting in the way of shooting with it, I would personally reconsider that perspective entirely. To each their own though.

But, let's just pretend for a second that Weapon is the best camera out there when it's available and is within your grasp to shoot on, is that name a "stopper" for you?
 
I'll just pose a hypothetical question here.

If there is a camera on the market that produces images you like and has the workflow you desire does it matter what it's name is?

My long standing personal opinion is if it looks like a watermelon with a lens sticking out of it and is called "Juicy and Sticky", if it's making the images I want to capture I'd have no problem shooting with it.

Like or dislike the name, that's the real question I'm thinking exists here.

More or less if the name is getting in the way of shooting with it, I would personally reconsider that perspective entirely. To each their own though.

But, let's just pretend for a second that Weapon is the best camera out there when it's available and is within your grasp to shoot on, is that name a "stopper" for you?


Did you read this thread ?

Multiple users and posts have already answered this and there is enough info to understand the issue.
 
Did you read this thread ?

Multiple users and posts have already answered this and there is enough info to understand the issue.

After years on this forum, that's the first time somebody has asked me that. Caused a good laugh. Yes. All 26 pages and nearly every post made on Reduser if you're curious.

I understand the "issue". I was hoping to point out and odd conundrum to invoke thought and was a bit curious.
 
I'll just pose a hypothetical question here.

If there is a camera on the market that produces images you like and has the workflow you desire does it matter what it's name is?

My long standing personal opinion is if it looks like a watermelon with a lens sticking out of it and is called "Juicy and Sticky", if it's making the images I want to capture I'd have no problem shooting with it.

Like or dislike the name, that's the real question I'm thinking exists here.

More or less if the name is getting in the way of shooting with it, I would personally reconsider that perspective entirely. To each their own though.

But, let's just pretend for a second that Weapon is the best camera out there when it's available and is within your grasp to shoot on, is that name a "stopper" for you?


Dragon was the first camera from RED I actually considered buying into.
Now, not so much.
So, yes it does matter.
I will not travel with a camera named weapon. I will not support the attitude behind it and I will look to the competition.
And yes, there is competition now.
Frankly, given the attitude surrounding such a name ARRI seems like a lot classier alternative.
It certainly will earn you as much, if not more respect in the industry.

Every DP I know is laughing at the name and that is not a good thing.
Funny, if it wasn't so tragic. What a shame.
 
I can say I just shot two videos for a huge Grammy winning british rock band. I introduced them to Epic 2 years ago and have shot all of their videos since, with RED cameras. I made mention of the new camera and its name. The first immediate response was "thats such a silly name." So that's my latest experience with an outsider of the camera world. I thought that was an interesting response and validates some of the others concerns with the name. Do I really care, No. But there's a lot of valid opposition and I understand their viewpoint. I think the key is to be understanding of the user base as a whole, not as our individual self. What's cool to one person is taboo to another. You're never going to please everyone, but there's gotta be a middle ground in regards to the naming. Find something that can't be taken with a negative connotation even by the harshest critic. Arri Alexa sounds classy, so does Amira. RED Crimson, since I believe the name is still available would be a good option (Since the Crimson projector still hasn't come to market)... RED Alpha, RED Solo, RED Ruby, RED Reflex, RED Argoflex, RED Imperial, RED Reflex, RED Carbon, etc.
 
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