Red "Weapon" Name Poll - Change it or not?

[Tim Morten]

Oh, I understand the disconnect on the stats now. Terry and Daniel are thinking about Gallup polls and the like, which are used to decide nothing due to their insufficient samples. I was thinking about the criteria actually used to elect / make decisions, which of course require statistically significant samples. Some Gallup polls align with the actual result, some do not. No actual election would be conducted with such a small sample percentage. Interestingly in the US, the Electoral College is the body primarily sampled when we make decisions since we're an indirect democracy; the requirement for actual voter turnout is quite low.

Anyhow, the quoted 'margins for error' are indeed math, but not actually objectively predictive measures, just projections that a statistician would categorize as speculative in the absence of a statistically significant sample... often 5% of the total population is the minimum criteria, though some might argue for 2%. There is a substantial chance of drawing a false conclusion by taking a sample size smaller than that.

I'm sure the response will be that somehow the miniscule sample we have should magically be interpreted as definitive, since it aligns with the opinion that some here want to champion. Just happy to understand the source of the disconnect.

 

[Brian Boyer]

Brian - I think that is the point. How many people actually DO first think of the word "weapon" in a context that ISN'T this way? This discussion is an example.

You're right. Not many people would think of "weapon" that way initially - until maybe a few days ago. But you disregarded the rest of my post that gave examples of it being used in an admirable fashion.

When you hear someone use "weapon" or "war" or "combat" in relation to fighting cancer do you think they're using them wrong? Of course not.

My point is, if I say, "beetle" do you think band, car or bug first? If I say, " Die Hard" do you think battery, movie or figure of speech?

An Apple is an electronic device. Rock is a genre of music. Coke may still be a toss up. Call typing "texting" and suddenly the kids think it's cool and can't get enough of it.

How many people say they're filming with their camera phones? It's easy to dismiss them as idiots if you don't consider how word usage and meaning morph, linger or disappear altogether.

The problem is, if we never bother to give certain "negative" words a different, positive meaning, we'll forever be at their mercy and afraid of them.

You know what's more of a realistic concern for me than the name? Being out alone "shooting" and having someone come up behind me, hit me on the head, and rip me off because it's a bloody expensive camera. Where I live, that's a real possibility.

 

[Nick Fury]

Actually, when I hear Beadle, I think of the appellation given to the 9th grade-12th grade student monitor-US. That is the issue regarding an individual's experience and associations-raaiiight there. Just had to state that, as RED's self appointed Minister of Monenclature.

Seriously, irrespective of opinions on names, the real poll, as far as we RED owners is concerned, revolves around, as I and others have stated several times, the RED brand and its success. There have already been vociferous on=bjections to the Weapon name, such that current Redusers have stated that they will NOT buy the upgrade. This has an exponential effect on the brand. RED may not care or may double down on nomenclature, but the end users won't likely benefit, from loss of market share. Of course, unless I missed it, there may have been Buyers so enamoutred of the current name that they bought into the brand. Just sayin'.

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Brian Boyer]

Anyhow, the quoted 'margins for error' are indeed math, but not actually objectively predictive measures, just projections that a statistician would categorize as speculative in the absence of a statistically significant sample... often 5% of the total population is the minimum criteria, though some might argue for 2%. There is a substantial chance of drawing a false conclusion by taking a sample size smaller than that.

I don't think this is true. It's not just about elections and polls. We're talking predictive models in general. There has never been a psychology study that involved 2% of the total population of any given country, let alone 5%.

These studies are often done to predict the behavior of the entirety of Western culture. I think you underestimate how small a statistically significant sample can be.

And for the record, candidates and their campaigns get pretty nervous when they're down 8-10 points in the polls. It means something to somebody.

 

[Elsie N]

Actually, when I hear Beadle, I think of the appellation given to the 9th grade-12th grade student monitor-US. That is the issue regarding an individual's experience and associations-raaiiight there. Just had to state that, as RED's self appointed Minister of Monenclature.

Seriously, irrespective of opinions on names, the real poll, as far as we RED owners is concerned, revolves around, as I and others have stated several times, the RED brand and its success. There have already been vociferous on=bjections to the Weapon name, such that current Redusers have stated that they will NOT buy the upgrade. This has an exponential effect on the brand. RED may not care or may double down on nomenclature, but the end users won't likely benefit, from loss of market share. Of course, unless I missed it, there may have been Buyers so enamoutred of the current name that they bought into the brand. Just sayin'.

Thank you very much

Fury

If I understand your point, you are saying not buying the camera because of the name is something like the old cliché "wiping your ass with your face"... ... ... hmmm, no that's not the one... Oh! I remember... "cutting off your nose to spite your face?"

 

[Terry VerHaar]

You're right. Not many people would think of "weapon" that way initially - until maybe a few days ago. But you disregarded the rest of my post that gave examples of it being used in an admirable fashion.

When you hear someone use "weapon" or "war" or "combat" in relation to fighting cancer do you think they're using them wrong? Of course not.

My point is, if I say, "beetle" do you think band, car or bug first? If I say, " Die Hard" do you think battery, movie or figure of speech?

An Apple is an electronic device. Rock is genre of music. Coke may still be a toss up. Call typing "texting" and suddenly the kids think it's cool and can't get enough of it.

How many people say they're filming with their camera phones? It's easy to dismiss them as idiots if you don't consider how word usage and meaning morph, linger or disappear altogether.

The problem is, if we never bother to give certain "negative" words a different, positive meaning, we'll forever be at their mercy and afraid of them.

You know what's more of a realistic concern for me than the name? Being out alone "shooting" and having someone come up behind me, hit me on the head, and rip me off because it's a bloody expensive camera. Where I live, that's a real possibility.

Brian - I would't have any strong disagreement with any of that, but out of the specific contexts you mention, the word "weapon" is - pardon the pun - a loaded term.

If RED wants to be the innovator in the morphing of language, who could argue with that?? A few years hence, the word "weapon" will be removed from military terminology because it is too wimpy and such a misnomer.

I kid.

And I totally agree with your concerns about having your camera stolen. It has happened to friends and colleagues of mine here in the Bay Area very recently - at gunpoint. Who knows, maybe if the thugs had seen cases lying around labeled "Weapon," the would have moved along. LOL Or gotten spooked and started shooting??

I have to be honest. My "issue" with RED is the bigger one of brand image. IMO, this name is probably a foregone conclusion; there is no specific battle to be won here. I'd love to see the company morph to focus on it's innovation, not it's "bad boy" version of a rebellion. That's just me.

Thanks for your constructive input and voicing your thoughts so eloquently.

 

[Brian Boyer]

Brian - I would't have any strong disagreement with any of that, but out of the specific contexts you mention, the word "weapon" is - pardon the pun - a loaded term.

If RED wants to be the innovator in the morphing of language, who could argue with that?? A few years hence, the word "weapon" will be removed from military terminology because it is too wimpy and such a misnomer.

I kid.

And I totally agree with your concerns about having your camera stolen. It has happened to friends and colleagues of mine here in the Bay Area very recently - at gunpoint. Who knows, maybe if the thugs had seen cases lying around labeled "Weapon," the would have moved along. LOL Or gotten spooked and started shooting??

I have to be honest. My "issue" with RED is the bigger one of brand image. IMO, this name is probably a foregone conclusion; there is no specific battle to be won here. I'd love to see the company morph to focus on it's innovation, not it's "bad boy" version of a rebellion. That's just me.

Thanks for your constructive input and voicing your thoughts so eloquently.

Thanks. I was mostly interested in this line of thinking as a thought experiment to see how well I could defend a position I don't necessarily or fully hold with the hope that others might do the same.

The word "weapon" will probably always carry its original meaning. It's not like RED doesn't know what it suggests, but it's not the only meaning, and they know that, too. The "loaded" nature of a double entendre usually makes for more interesting conversation, at the very least.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The word "weapon" will probably always carry its original meaning. It's not like RED doesn't know what it suggests, but it's not the only meaning, and they know that, too. The "loaded" nature of a double entendre usually makes for more interesting conversation, at the very least.

Sums up the very existence of this thread.

 

[jake southard]

My vote's for "Clifford"

 

[Frank Weeks]

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".

I ask the masters at Red give me a camera that I respect. When that happens I don't care if they call it "Steaming Pile".
They haven't let me down yet.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Anybody else notice the phallic symbol in the poll results? hahaha so fitting.

 

[Michael Lindsay]

Anybody else notice the phallic symbol in the poll results? hahaha so fitting.

Very fitting...;-)

 

[Michael Brennan]

Sure you can gaffer tape over the badge, but the badge is not the issue as it is attached to a camera so there is no likely hood of the camera being mistaken for a weapon just because it is labelled so.

The practical issue is reference to the "weapon" by spoken or written word.

As I mentioned in another thread reference to using a weapon in a drone has the potential to cause alarm.

From the perspective of a long time docco shooter my crew were banned from wearing any T shirts with a political cultural or religious themed message.
My approach was to appear neutral.
I've always felt Red's designs are a bit flashey to the point of being (very minorly) detrimental to the documentry craft. (we are meant to blend in with the backgound)


"Weapon" from the context of the usability of the product, puts the brand before the craft.
Its not a big issue.

From a personal rather than professional perspective, I wouldn't dare to suggest that Jim shouldn't do anything but keep on trucking as he hasn't got to where he is by being an apologist!


Michael Brennan

 

[Milan S.]

Anybody else notice the phallic symbol in the poll results? hahaha so fitting.

I noticed. The question is who is giving whom the middle finger?

 

[Manfred Lopez]

At what number of responses do the results become statistically representative of all potential owners? Does anyone know about statistics?

 

[Sid Idris]

Yeah! The good old days when women couldn't vote, certain people knew their place and the world was awesome for everybody*.

*Everybody who was a white property owning christian heterosexual man.

the nerve of some people to think we're all equal.... ;-)

 

[Corey_O]

Brian - I would't have any strong disagreement with any of that, but out of the specific contexts you mention, the word "weapon" is - pardon the pun - a loaded term.

If RED wants to be the innovator in the morphing of language, who could argue with that?? A few years hence, the word "weapon" will be removed from military terminology because it is too wimpy and such a misnomer.

I kid.

And I totally agree with your concerns about having your camera stolen. It has happened to friends and colleagues of mine here in the Bay Area very recently - at gunpoint. Who knows, maybe if the thugs had seen cases lying around labeled "Weapon," the would have moved along. LOL Or gotten spooked and started shooting??

I have to be honest. My "issue" with RED is the bigger one of brand image. IMO, this name is probably a foregone conclusion; there is no specific battle to be won here. I'd love to see the company morph to focus on it's innovation, not it's "bad boy" version of a rebellion. That's just me.

Thanks for your constructive input and voicing your thoughts so eloquently.

Since this thread is about words and there perceptions……….some people equate "thugs" with the n word. LINK

 

[Shane Betts]

Hey baby. Come up to my place and I'll show you my red weapon.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Since this thread is about words and there perceptions……….some people equate "thugs" with the n word. LINK

I see what you are saying but it's a bit of a stretch. I guess I am not in the circle that uses that vernacular and nothing of the sort was intended.

The dictionary definition, as intended: "a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer"

 

[Shane Betts]

So, when the medium format Red finally arrives, will they call it the M-Fo?