Red "Weapon" Name Poll - Change it or not?

[Adam Becker]

This poll may say one thing, but we have a vocal minority vs. a larger community that doesn't give a shit. Poll sat here for two days before I clicked my vote... And the votes not representing a change to the name are split into two categories. In the end, it's a name. If you don't like it, don't buy it or pop the little name badge off your camera. Maybe we can get Ryan over at W00d3n Camera to make little wood replacement badges for the front of the camera that say something else. RED already has him on their shit list anyway.

The prevalence of third party manufacturers is due in part to a need for the products they make or for similar products. For instance, in the dragon shooting dragon in space post, you can see another manufacturers XLR audio box connected to one of the Epic bodies. I hope that someone else does create a solution via some kind of AKS badge for those who want to 'shave' the name off of their cameras - if RED is unable to offer a similar option.

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

So when a poll doesn't go your way by a landslide you simply say the poll is invalid? Ok... Just wanted to check how that get of jail card works... Gotcha.

Now lets start a poll for RED to disable the POLL feature on the forum? That's a snake eating its own tail.

But lets get real.... I didn't need a poll to tell me what I read loud and clear over the last couple days...There is an overwhelming negative reaction to WEAPON from all walks of Redusers. Like it or not. The poll reflects what I read from users...no surprise.

 

[Elsie N]

So when a poll doesn't go your way by a landslide you simply say the poll is invalid? Ok... Just wanted to check how that get of jail card works... Gotcha.

Now lets start a poll for RED to disable the POLL feature on the forum? That's a snake eating its own tail.

But lets get real.... I didn't need a poll to tell me what I read loud and clear over the last couple days...There is an overwhelming negative reaction to WEAPON from all walks of Redusers. Like it or not. The poll reflects what I read from users...no surprise.

Or stated another way, there is a small minority of overwhelmingly negative reactionaries who try to make us think they are a large army by simply marching through the forums time and time again.

 

[Scott Crawley]

OK Terry.

I didn't mean to say or even imply that you were feeling self important. I was merely pointing out that the RedUser online community as a whole is not as important as many seem to believe it is. A portion of us are their customers and we have Red's ear. That is definitely worth something, but we should not expect a flawed poll of some of our opinions to hold sway. That said Jarred seems to be feeling rather benevolent of late, so who knows what could come of it.

I have a stake in Red, but ZERO stake in what they name the next camera.

Scott - really, I have only said that my own opinion is that I don't like the name myself. The other point I have been making is that the poll indicates I am not alone. What seems to be happening from there is that people want to suggest that the opinion of the group, as captured, however crudely, by the poll - which was asked for, perhaps in jest but still posted, by Jarred - is irrelevant. In the end - also as I have stated many times - is that RED will decide.

I am not sure why calling for reconsideration of the name is "important and grandiose" any more than asking it to remain is. There certainly is a lot of belittling of sincere objections going on, suggesting quite often that anyone who doesn't like the nap,e must be a wimp.

Personally, I will support the RED infrastructure going forward without regard to the name. But, I think it would behoove those who are "losing" the poll results to just take it for what it is rather than being "sore losers." A few are using the lack of statistical rigidity to completely negate the information, which is silly.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Sohhhhhh Uncle G... just out of curiosity, what forbidden words would someone have to say that would cause you to close this thread? Hmmm????

Oh... I am perfectly capable to single out people and shut them down, too. The powers of moderation...

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Really. If this doesn't chill down, this thread gets a break. Play nice and keep it within "probable" speculation.

No offenses allowed or accepted

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

A break.

 

[Elsie N]

Elsie,
I meant no offense toward you or anyone else. I was basing my suspicions off of my own preferences and the preferences expressed to me by other current dragon owners. Sorry for the confusion.

Adam, seriously... no offense taken. That was just my way of disagreeing with your statement of numbers. A fair number may mean different things to us but I took it to mean a significant amount and wanted to show I differed with you on that assessment.

And please don't think what I post here is anything other than good-natured debate. All the time I'm writing this stuff I've got a smile on my face... or at least lodged in my trachea. But I guess that doesn't come across in my postings because hell! Gunleik threatened to banish me!

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I'm all good with anything sent or received. And I'll sit down and buy a beverage for anyone I've gone tête à tête with (even gunleik if he should banish me '-) as long as I don't have to join them in anything alcoholic.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

So when a poll doesn't go your way by a landslide you simply say the poll is invalid? Ok... Just wanted to check how that get of jail card works... Gotcha.

Never said anything about a poll going my way, but the poll is not a good or proper representation of the situation. If the opposite were true and the poll really did provide a good represented cross-section of the community and user base, and it indicated a true change were in order, that is something different.

I said that splitting hairs for the alternate of changing the name is flawed. That introduces discontinuity to the poll and potentially skews results. So if we have a poll with only two choices "Keep the Weapon name" and "Please change the name" I postulate that we would see something different. Perhaps we would even see a higher percentage requesting a name change than we do now.

Now lets start a poll for RED to disable the POLL feature on the forum? That's a snake eating its own tail.

But RED does not operate this forum. Perhaps a technicality, but yeah.

But lets get real.... I didn't need a poll to tell me what I read loud and clear over the last couple days...There is an overwhelming negative reaction to WEAPON from all walks of Redusers. Like it or not. The poll reflects what I read from users...no surprise.

There is a negative reaction. True. I disagree on the overwhelming aspect of it. The vast majority of complainants over the name are the same posters time and time again. The vast majority of those who verbally support the name are the same posters time and time again. The overwhelming majority of the RedUser community remains silent.

 

[Milan S.]

So now Red is rebelling against their own customers?

Thats what im getting out of Jeff's post and if the name stays in spite of the poll, that's certainly what's happening.

Calling guitar an axe is not the same.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

Well, who Would have thought that they have a sample size calculator on the Internet.
http://www.raosoft.com/samplesize.html
for a 95% confidence, with 172 votes, and a "Population" of 57,455, we have a 7.46% margin of error.
That means that even if you added, say 7.5% to the group that wants to keep the name and took 7.5% away from the group that would like to change the name, more than 50% would want to change the name, less than 30% wanna keep it. But the right numbers would be a range:

keep it: 14.5-29.5%
Change it: 51.5-66.5%
Dont care: 11-26%

This is with 172 votes. The more votes, the smaller the margins. But the trend is definitely there.

Now with the total voters at 253, the margin of error is now down to 6.15%

the amount of people that want change is still about 3 times the amount of people that would like to keep it. You can't keep using the argument that is a vocal minority.
And negative reactionaries? If anything we want a change to something positive, not negative. And please, like uncle G asked you, please stop the name calling...

 

[Iain Philpott]

I do recognise the call from some on here that it should just be 'family' voting. That's cool I have no problem with that. I am not an owner, I rent. It's way more cost effective. Then you always choose the right camera for the job. So I speak from a certain perspective. I would never, and I mean never, rent a camera called Weapon to take to some dodgy country flying from Europe. That effects the rental houses therefore that effects RED's business. I am but one, but I am sure I'm not the only one. It just does not make sense that through a 'name', you know, before you have even released the camera you have reduced it's potential reach/income?

 

[Elsie N]

I do recognise the call from some on here that it should just be 'family' voting. That's cool I have no problem with that. I am not an owner, I rent. It's way more cost effective. Then you always choose the right camera for the job. So I speak from a certain perspective. I would never, and I mean never, rent a camera called Weapon to take to some dodgy country flying from Europe. That effects the rental houses therefore that effects RED's business. I am but one, but I am sure I'm not the only one. It just does not make sense that through a 'name', you know, before you have even released the camera you have reduced it's potential reach/income?

As a renter, you qualify as extended family, so your opinion counts.

 

[Elsie N]

Now with the total voters at 253, the margin of error is now down to 6.15%

the amount of people that want change is still about 3 times the amount of people that would like to keep it. You can't keep using the argument that is a vocal minority.
And negative reactionaries? If anything we want a change to something positive, not negative. And please, like uncle G asked you, please stop the name calling...

(Yawn)

 

[Daniel Stilling]

(Yawn)

Go to bed.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Go to bed.

++1

 

[Elsie N]

Just sayin'... the interesting stuff is here

 

[D Fuller]

A true poll is one where the pollsters seek out a demographic... not one where the demographic seeks out the poll.

You do realize that it was Jarred who first suggested a poll?

 

[Elsie N]

You do realize that it was Jarred who first suggested a poll?

But he didn't make one. Probably realized the results wouldn't be indicative of the customer base opinion, as I pointed out to him right after he made that ill-fated post. '-)

 

[Terry VerHaar]

But he didn't make one. Probably realized the results wouldn't be indicative of the customer base opinion, as I pointed out to him right after he made that ill-fated post. '-)

Makes me wonder what you think of climate change and evolution.