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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red USER Rant...

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Tom Lowe

Tom Lowe

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The recent "House" thread brought all the nonsense and crap to a crescendo a few days ago -- a crescendo of embarrassment and shame for this site among the cinematography and filmmaking community.

First, the producers and DP of one of the most popular shows on TV -- a show that dared to try something new with digital technology for a single episode -- were accused of accepting a "bribe" from Canon USA. Then, by the end of that disgraceful thread, people were openly mocking and disrespecting major industry players like Lucasfilm's Rick McCallum. Really?? The same Rick McCallum who helped usher in the digital revolution in cinema? I will take 10,000 to 1 odds that the people who disrespected McCallum on this forum would never do so to his face.

So let's put this in perspective. Somehow, certain people here think that by disrespecting and mocking major TV and film producers, this will somehow help Red gain respect in the filmmaking business? Just the opposite. There are major ASC guys and directors who will not even read or post here -- will not even attend Red events anymore -- because of this type of crap. I'm surprised that David has even stuck around at this point.

The bottom line is, after suffering embarrassment by the crap posted in the "Other Cameras" forum, Jim said "enough" and asked us to stop posting about it. How many times will Jim have to ask this? 15 times? 25 times? If you went to Jim's house and he asked you not to talk about X, Y and Z, would you still continue to sit there and talk about it?

I hope at this point, moderators will simply CRUSH any mention of this crap in the future. Kill it in its cradle. Jim has requested this over and over again.

Rather than bashing other cameras and disrespecting people who use other cameras, why don't we lead by example and have our Red footage speak for itself? Instead of talking shit here, take your MX out and shoot something spectacular. The best way to convert people to Red is not to berate them at gunpoint, but to impress them with what these camera can do.
icon14.gif


/RANT

Ok, I'm gonna go back to working on my new timelapse rig... :sifone:
 
I think people, myself included, get very nervous when faced with their own lively hood potentially shrinking. It isnt the shifting tide from one camera to another, we've all dealt with that and we will again.

The hDSLRs are a fantastic tool, and hopefully just a window into what we'll be able to do with the next generation camera in a year or so, but for a lot of people they mean less hands on set, less lights on the ground, and less jobs. Thats scary.

We should be using new technology to make images we couldn't make yesterday, which is what this last episode of House sounds like. We DONT want to make compromises on quality and put people out of work while doing so. Thats the source of the backlash.

But yes, we should be civil.
 
I personally am fine with the way reduser is at the current moment. I would however like to see an invite only forum as part of the community here. There ought to be a place where intelligent discussion can transpire without having silliness detract from the relevant information. Thus invite people who have something important to say, and build a sub-community to build logical discussion forum. Anyone can read it, but only a select few (this is relative few could be 10, 100, or thousands) can contribute to it with a strict policy for booting unproductive discourse.
 
Tom Lowe said:
The recent "House" thread brought all the nonsense and crap to a crescendo a few days ago -- a crescendo of embarrassment and shame for this site among the cinematography and filmmaking community.

First, the producers and DP of one of the most popular shows on TV -- a show that dared to try something new with digital technology for a single episode -- were accused of accepting a "bribe" from Canon USA. Then, by the end of that disgraceful thread, people were openly mocking and disrespecting major industry players like Lucasfilm's Rick McCallum. Really?? The same Rick McCallum who helped usher in the digital revolution in cinema? I will take 10,000 to 1 odds that the people who disrespected McCallum on this forum would never do so to his face.

So let's put this in perspective. Somehow, certain people here think that by disrespecting and mocking major TV and film producers, this will somehow help Red gain respect in the filmmaking business? Just the opposite. There are major ASC guys and directors who will not even read or post here -- will not even attend Red events anymore -- because of this type of crap. I'm surprised that David has even stuck around at this point.

The bottom line is, after suffering embarrassment by the crap posted in the "Other Cameras" forum, Jim said "enough" and asked us to stop posting about it. How many times will Jim have to ask this? 15 times? 25 times? If you went to Jim's house and he asked you not to talk about X, Y and Z, would you still continue to sit there and talk about it?

I hope at this point, moderators will simply CRUSH any mention of this crap in the future. Kill it in its cradle. Jim has requested this over and over again.

Rather than bashing other cameras and disrespecting people who use other cameras, why don't we lead by example and have our Red footage speak for itself? Instead of talking shit here, take your MX out and shoot something spectacular. The best way to convert people to Red is not to berate them at gunpoint, but to impress them with what these camera can do.
icon14.gif


/RANT

Ok, I'm gonna go back to working on my new timelapse rig... :sifone:
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with you Tom and I said something similar in the thread you are referring to. I know quite a few people that do not feel welcome on reduser because they work with the "toys" that many reduser's love to mock . "fools with their line-skippers, don't they know that red is sooooooo much better, god they are stupid!" Red is not like a Toyota Camery or Vanilla ice cream, it is not for everyone. I sometimes feel that this site has become a stuffy cigar-smoke filled country club. So many of us hate the fact that Arri/aaton worshipers look down on our "cinema camera for the masses" but yet we do the same thing to those who use Canon gear. Lets be honest, guys like Vincent LaForet and Philip Bloom are getting double even triple the amount of work that many Red owners are getting. The Red is not as exclusive as we think it is. You want to impress someone with your gear, go shoot a music video with IMAX 3D, I'm sure the car sized camera will impress the clients! With the Scarlet on the horizon, red is about to get way way less exclusive so get over it and yourselves. Cameras are tools, nothing more. I can find numerous canon creations that are 10x better than many red vids on vimeo. When will this fanboy crap stop?
 
Tom,

Your comments are right on. I for one, hope that David does not let something like this stop him from posting. His thread has been invaluable to my "education" due to my not coming from a film background.

I wonder how many of the posters on the House thread were Red owners. A public forum is just that. Would be too bad if we had to create an "Owners Only" formatted site to keep from having such things reflect on us and on RED.

my .02

Alan
 
I agree.

REDUSER has become an invaluable source for my personal education, and for many just entering the field. This education spans many cameras and the art of cinematography. It would be a shame for everyone if the comments and environment of the site kept the experienced and knowledgeable cinematographers from posting. Philip Bloom and Tom Lowe are two people in particular I would hope are not deterred by a few rants.
 
Alan Skinner said:
Would be too bad if we had to create an "Owners Only" formatted site to keep from having such things reflect on us and on RED.
Click to expand...

I'm not an owner and I think that's a great idea, haha! However, in about 6 months everyone and their mother will own a Scarlet, so the exclusivity of such a forum wouldn't last long.
 
How would an owners only forum help, when several who participated in this recent debauchery were RED One owners? Or would the owners only forum just be to keep our own idiocy contained within so the rest of the world can't see?
 
Closing the forum to owners is not the solution. Simply respecting what Jim has requested of us is the answer, IMO.

This forum was supposed to be a place to talk about Red.

Off topic was a place to talk about beer, women, movies, gadgets, cars, etc. But it was infected by all the "other camera" talk, IMO. Can we get back to the good old days? :beer:
 
Tom Lowe said:
Closing the forum to owners is not the solution. Simply respecting what Jim has requested of us is the answer, IMO.

This forum was supposed to be a place to talk about Red.

Off topic was a place to talk about beer, women, movies, gadgets, cars, etc. But it was infected by all the "other camera" talk, IMO. Can we get back to the good old days? :beer:
Click to expand...

More so because the first time an owner posts disparaging remarks about equipment another person has and that other person feels like they can't even respond with their own valid feelings and possibly corrections, that person is going to be turned off to reduser and possibly leave.

I don't have a RED yet, but I would certainly be turned off if I felt I couldn't correspond with others if they all decided to just talk in the read-only-to-none-red-owners section. Especially because I cannot afford a RED ONE.
 
I read the early pages on that thread and thought it might turn into a democratization of filmmaking discussion - how wrong was I!!

Sidney said:
A closed pro section could be an option? - but film students and younger a crowd should be allowed to interact somehow... dunno how...
Click to expand...

I'm a professional, my production company has a RED, I own a 5D, a 7D and an EX1. Would you let me play in your forum.
 
I finally gave up requesting a owners-only REAL real-names section on RedUser, but perhaps the powers will take a fresh look at it.

Can anyone seriously deny that there is a very high noise to signal ratio here? I would certainly enjoy a section of the forum, open to being read by all, but limited to posts by real owners with real identities.

I know this omits valuable posts from experienced Red users who are not owners; there may be a way to accept them as members.

Good shooting and best regards to all,

Leo
 
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