Red Scarlet vs BMC

[Robert Wauu]

Joe Marine on 12.26.12 @ 5:41AM
I think the BMCC shot in RAW will hold up pretty well compared to SCARLET once you downscale to 1080p, especially since the BMCC might have about a stop better dynamic range. I’m going to hopefully be doing a direct comparison between the two, so stay tuned.


Where does he get this info from? If this is true, it is bad for the Scarlet. (from nofilmschool) .... I would not be happy if it is true that a camera for 3k has better dynamic range than my 15k scarlet.

 

[Phil Holland]

Where does he get this info from?

Dunno. But the Scarlet X lands 13.5 and has HDRx for around 18 stops at speed with REDCODE 7:1 at 3K.

BMCC has 13 listed.

 

[Josh Snyder]

Joe Marine on 12.26.12 @ 5:41AM
I think the BMCC shot in RAW will hold up pretty well compared to SCARLET once you downscale to 1080p, especially since the BMCC might have about a stop better dynamic range. I’m going to hopefully be doing a direct comparison between the two, so stay tuned.


Where does he get this info from? If this is true, it is bad for the Scarlet. (from nofilmschool) .... I would not be happy if it is true that a camera for 3k has better dynamic range than my 15k scarlet.

It has been a bad time to buy Scarlet for a while now considering how fast camera specs go up and prices go down these days. BMC is the best camera to choose if you don't need one asap and reasons for that can be found on Ryan's article. Use BMC for a year and update to the new BMC version after that or if someone else comes with better camera for 3k$ at NAB then get that one. You will probably get around 2k$ from your old BMC after a year so you don't loose big bucks.

NAB 2013 will be pretty carzy since all manufacturers must try to compete with BMC and BMD has been rumored to introduce 4K S35 camera for 3k$ (late 2013/early 2014 release).

It's very risky to invest in expensive cameras anymore.

 

[dennys bisogno]

Good grieve this thread still going! Every-week the same statements is recycle again and again

"BMMC is better than Scarlet, not is not - Oh yes it is... don't you look at me that way, is not - I don't care what you say, yes it is.. Apple is evil, no.... Samsung is! I hate your FORD - Your GM is ugly!

Pick you drug (Scarlet or BMCC) and move on and be happy. I seen great footage from both cameras and they both had something in common, exceptional people shooting with them.

I will see if this thread goes to page 25, then I think it would be more fun to watch Clint Eastwood talk to an empty chair!

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

It has been a bad time to buy Scarlet for a while now considering how fast camera specs go up and prices go down these days. BMC is the best camera to choose if you don't need one asap and reasons for that can be found on Ryan's article. Use BMC for a year and update to the new BMC version after that or if someone else comes with better camera for 3k$ at NAB then get that one. You will probably get around 2k$ from your old BMC after a year so you don't loose big bucks.

NAB 2013 will be pretty carzy since all manufacturers must try to compete with BMC and BMD has been rumored to introduce 4K S35 camera for 3k$ (late 2013/early 2014 release).

It's very risky to invest in expensive cameras anymore.

Just go buy a BMCC already....

This is just me but only being able to re-sell a camera you spent 3k on for 2k is a 30 percent loss. I'm not losing that much on the sale of my Scarlet...

Sure cashflow wise it may not seem alot, but I know many that wouldn't want to lose that much money.

Like others are saying I don't really understand this thread still going. Pick your tool and go shoot with it. We always will want more. Humans are greedy by nature. I found that I was happy with my scarlet when I just quit worrying about what I wanted it to do, and made it do what it could. I'm sure if you got a Scarlet you'd find that it'd open you up to more things than you'd even be able to comprehend. I'm sure the same is true for the BMCC.

Go buy a camera and quit pumping one up when everyone already knows what it is.

 

[Chris Gurtlinger]

Just go buy a BMCC already....

This is just me but only being able to re-sell a camera you spent 3k on for 2k is a 30 percent loss. I'm not losing that much on the sale of my Scarlet...

Sure cashflow wise it may not seem alot, but I know many that wouldn't want to lose that much money.

Like others are saying I don't really understand this thread still going. Pick your tool and go shoot with it. We always will want more. Humans are greedy by nature. I found that I was happy with my scarlet when I just quit worrying about what I wanted it to do, and made it do what it could. I'm sure if you got a Scarlet you'd find that it'd open you up to more things than you'd even be able to comprehend. I'm sure the same is true for the BMCC.

Go buy a camera and quit pumping one up when everyone already knows what it is.

+1, couldn't of said it better, pick the tool that is best for you...You may not need or want everything a Scarlet will do/offer a person, or just not have the money to buy a scarlet and thats fine. But to try to convince everyone else that your opinion is the right one isn't the way to go about it(even if you your not trying to do that it really seems like you are though, don't take offense to this comment not trying to offend at all). Your not gonna change the minds of people here, you made your main points that you wanted to make and everyone has their own opinions about the camera so just let it go and buy yourself a BMCC already and wait for it to ship as quite a few people have state already. I personally love what the boys at blackmagic design are trying to do and the images coming from the camera itself and was on the BlackMagic Design Cinema Camera boat for the longest time, but waiting and waiting and waiting then I said screw it and went ahead and canceled everything I had on preorder from B&H and just placed an order for a scarlet package yea it costed a bit more then what I had on order but you know what I got my camera in less then 2 weeks after ordering it, loved the service I got from my bomb squad rep (she was just awesome durring the whole process). But anyway lets just stop beating this dead horse of a topic, go buy the camera you feel will be the best camera for you and let us buy/have the best cameras that we think we need to get our work done!

 

[Peter Osinski]

this thread went downhill a while ago but maybe it can still yield some good info....specifically I want to know Josh's source for the 4k s35 bmc. I know there is a kinefinity s35 coming out at the same price point as bmc that only does dng but that will still be only 2k.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

this thread went downhill a while ago but maybe it can still yield some good info....specifically I want to know Josh's source for the 4k s35 bmc. I know there is a kinefinity s35 coming out at the same price point as bmc that only does dng but that will still be only 2k.

There have been rumors of a BMCC 4K ASP-C camera for around 6k for awhile. I haven't seen an official source but have heard it from individuals. I wouldn't say any of that is true until they can actually ship the camera they're trying to get out the door right now. I'm rooting for them without a doubt though!

Hopefully if they do release another camera the change the form factor just a bit. I'd love to own a cheaper 4k raw camera with an internal battery, or smaller batteries thats easier to just pull out of a bag and roll with. Even the Epic and Scarlet with there size can be a bit big to pull out and start rolling at an airport or other areas you want a quick fast shot.

 

[Peter Osinski]

There have been rumors of a BMCC 4K ASP-C camera for around 6k for awhile. I haven't seen an official source but have heard it from individuals. I wouldn't say any of that is true until they can actually ship the camera they're trying to get out the door right now. I'm rooting for them without a doubt though!

Hopefully if they do release another camera the change the form factor just a bit. I'd love to own a cheaper 4k raw camera with an internal battery, or smaller batteries thats easier to just pull out of a bag and roll with. Even the Epic and Scarlet with there size can be a bit big to pull out and start rolling at an airport or other areas you want a quick fast shot.

I agree with you on changing the form factor. I like the scarlet when its rigged out for a shoot, but I can't say I'm into the bmc form factor at all. My ideal camera would just be a cube with a lens mount in front, buttons on the back, and cheeseplates making up the sides and top and bottom. The bmc reminds me of an Imac....pretty but unnecessarily hard to customize. To me it would be ideal if cameras came out of the box looking like a scarlet with a dsmc tactical cage on it.

 

[Phil Holland]

I'm with you on this one Jeffrey. I don't know why a camera comparison thread has gone on for so long without any images or usage notes, at least from the advocating voice. I tried to remedy that. From an ISO performance, image quality, resolving power, functionality standpoint, rolling shutter, etc.. there really isn't much of argument. Scarlet and BMCC are two wildly different machines. But I've used these cameras. I was able to make that quick observation for myself.

The bottom line is image quality is very important to me. There are raw files for both of these cameras available online and those alone tell you the story. Test them. Have an informed opinion. If camera price is your only concern and you ignore the entire specifications and results from the camera itself I have no idea what you're doing.

But honestly, most of this thread = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facepalm

 

[Björn Benckert]

Josh, what's up? From seeing your posts around here you behave like a internet troll.

Everyone here know the BMC is available, but for one reason or the other they decided to go with RED. I do not think they will change their mind just because you add a BMC promoting post in just about each and every thread on the forum.

I looked trough your posts and they are all quite negative: http://www.reduser.net/forum/search.php?searchid=6789978

If you think the BMC is the best thing ever invented since sliced bread. Then that's great for you. However, I think most people around here do not, care much for a small sensor consumer pocket camera. They simply do not see it as the best possible option for what they do, or want to do. If that was the case they would all have sold their REDs and moved on getting a GH1's or such.

 

[Nick Morrison]

It has been a bad time to buy Scarlet for a while now considering how fast camera specs go up and prices go down these days. BMC is the best camera to choose if you don't need one asap and reasons for that can be found on Ryan's article. Use BMC for a year and update to the new BMC version after that or if someone else comes with better camera for 3k$ at NAB then get that one. You will probably get around 2k$ from your old BMC after a year so you don't loose big bucks.

NAB 2013 will be pretty carzy since all manufacturers must try to compete with BMC and BMD has been rumored to introduce 4K S35 camera for 3k$ (late 2013/early 2014 release).

It's very risky to invest in expensive cameras anymore.

Josh I can't book $50k shoots with two BMCs. My clients want 4K delivery, and graded 1080p edit-ready Quicktimes. Our two Scarlets let us do that. The BMC's look like DSLRs, don't do 4K, and will def slide us back to DSLR type shoot budgets (think $10k).

Scarlet and BMC are NOT the same.

You don't want to hear this, but for me the BMC replaces the Canon 5D MKIII as the new lower budget go-to camera. It's fantastic, but does not do 4K or higher frame rates, and is NOT in the same market as the Scarlet.

Just because you can't afford a Scarlet, doesn't mean it ain't good.

 

[Abraham Lim]

Josh, what's up? From seeing your posts around here you behave like a internet troll.

Everyone here know the BMC is available, but for one reason or the other they decided to go with RED. I do not think they will change their mind just because you add a BMC promoting post in just about each and every thread on the forum.

I looked trough your posts and they are all quite negative: http://www.reduser.net/forum/search.php?searchid=6789978

If you think the BMC is the best thing ever invented since sliced bread. Then that's great for you. However, I think most people around here do not, care much for a small sensor consumer pocket camera. They simply do not see it as the best possible option for what they do, or want to do. If that was the case they would all have sold their REDs and moved on getting a GH1's or such.

Thanks for this post! I waited as long as I could for the BMCC fairy but made the move to the BT Red One. I still think the BMCC is a great camera for the price like everyone else, but all the reviews are from the eight people who have one. It does not exist for the many, many average joes who have paid and waited for just a definitive reply from BM about the camera, which never came. Even now it is a vague statement about "getting back to production", with no idea if it will be next month or in March. But it's better than nothing so people are celebrating. If it's the camera that fits you, go for it, just don't expect to get one in your hands anytime soon.

Yes, by NAB they may announce something better on paper. But a large number of customers won't be getting on a bandwagon again, until it actually makes it onto shelves. So instead of waiting I can now shoot 4k RAW and overcrank and be productive. Sure my back will be killing me, but I feel lucky to be a Red owner. After experiencing the great support from the company and the users, it's a different world.

As for pocket cameras, I still have my awesome GH2.

 

[Josh Snyder]

This is just me but only being able to re-sell a camera you spent 3k on for 2k is a 30 percent loss. I'm not losing that much on the sale of my Scarlet...

Sure cashflow wise it may not seem alot, but I know many that wouldn't want to lose that much money.

You aren't? Resale value of Scarlet brain has gone down over 40% in less than a year.

 

[Andy White]

Josh I can't book $50k shoots with two BMCs. My clients want 4K delivery, and graded 1080p edit-ready Quicktimes. Our two Scarlets let us do that. The BMC's look like DSLRs, don't do 4K, and will def slide us back to DSLR type shoot budgets (think $10k).

Scarlet and BMC are NOT the same.

You don't want to hear this, but for me the BMC replaces the Canon 5D MKIII as the new lower budget go-to camera. It's fantastic, but does not do 4K or higher frame rates, and is NOT in the same market as the Scarlet.

Just because you can't afford a Scarlet, doesn't mean it ain't good.

Nick look back at my posts a few days ago (posts 205 & 207). We all operate in a slightly different place to Josh (perhaps).

Josh - have you used any of these cameras yet (Alexa, BMC, Epic or Scarlet?) - as that's the best way to see what you like & what works for you.

BMC is the 5DMKII (in terms of trending usage, but most bookings will go to Alexa & Epic (Scarlet also) as they have workflow models that are proven.

 

[Andy White]

BMCC is great.

Epic is great.

Scarlet is great.

Alexa is great.

GH1/GH2/GH3 are all great too... even the AF100 is pretty good.

5DMKII & 5DMKII - also great.

F3 & F65 - they're great too.

F5 & F55 - yup, they'll be great also!

I could go on... but I think you see what I'm saying :laugh:

Get the camera you can really afford, or rent the one you can't... be happy and produce some good work.



:closed2ur0:

 

[Josh Snyder]

Josh I can't book $50k shoots with two BMCs. My clients want 4K delivery, and graded 1080p edit-ready Quicktimes. Our two Scarlets let us do that. The BMC's look like DSLRs, don't do 4K, and will def slide us back to DSLR type shoot budgets (think $10k).

Scarlet and BMC are NOT the same.

You don't want to hear this, but for me the BMC replaces the Canon 5D MKIII as the new lower budget go-to camera. It's fantastic, but does not do 4K or higher frame rates, and is NOT in the same market as the Scarlet.

Just because you can't afford a Scarlet, doesn't mean it ain't good.

Neither BMC or Scarlet looks like DSLR.

I haven't said Scarlet isn't good (I can afford it btw). It is good. I've said that for similar (many even prefering BMC's image) cinema grade image there is no way I could justify spending so much more for Scarlet.

Image is the #1 thing that matters to people and BMC delivers, big time. True digital cinema quality for revolutionary 3k$. That's what matters. It has shortcomings sure, but when you get image like that, people are more than happy to work out those shortcoming.

If your clients want 4K then obviously 4K camera is what you need (btw you are "lucky" that your clients want 4K since huge majority still wants 2K).

Scarlet doesn't do higher frame rates either. Or are we talking about high frame rates in lower resolutions because there are cheaper cameras that can shoot higher frame rates at 2K or 1080p. Besides, you can't shoot 3K to get higher frame rates because your clients want 4K, remember?

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Neither BMC or Scarlet looks like DSLR.

I haven't said Scarlet isn't good (I can afford it btw). It is good. I've said that for similar (many even prefering BMC's image) cinema grade image there is no way I could justify spending so much more for Scarlet.

Image is the #1 thing that matters to people and BMC delivers, big time. True digital cinema quality for revolutionary 3k$. That's what matters. It has shortcomings sure, but when you get image like that, people are more than happy to work out those shortcoming.

If your clients want 4K then obviously 4K camera is what you need (btw you are "lucky" that your clients want 4K since huge majority still wants 2K).

Scarlet doesn't do higher frame rates either. Or are we talking about high frame rates in lower resolutions because there are cheaper cameras that can shoot higher frame rates at 2K or 1080p. Besides, you can't shoot 3K to get higher frame rates because your clients want 4K, remember?

Learn how to grade?

They are both raw....

Is this trolling yet?

 

[Philipe Ratton]

Please please please someone close this thread.
Unless we see some brillant work not worthy of what a scarlet can deliver.

 

[Philipe Ratton]

Sorry guys, it's my fault, I keep coming back to this shit, it's like a disease !
Ok, end of rant, time to hit the ignore button.