Red Rocket X + Mac OS Catalina

[Michael Tiemann]

Not at all. RED will be supporting all current hardware/software. The Rocket is EOL.

I can understand Rocket being EOL, as it was replaced by RR-X. Nothing in official Apple ecosystem yet replaces RR-X, so EOL for RR-X is premature. If Afterburner handled R3D decode and debayer TODAY, I'd be happy to accept RR-X as EOL. But as things stand, Red+Apple is going backward, not forward. PC+RED is moving ahead by leaps and bounds, especially with AMD CPU and nVidia GPU.

 

[Antony Newman]

Update : 2020 Mar 7th : Scroll down to my next post in this thread to find the actual steps used to installed the RRX in Catalina.

=========
Michael,

As I am using RRX in Catalina - I am wondering if the problem that we are facing is that Apple have locked down the ability for install scripts to write to parts of the system area.

Could it be what you just need to temporarily deactivate SIP for the install script be allowed to run?

https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/m...system-integrity-protection-rootless-3638975/

Summary of what temporary SIP deactivation looks like:

* Shutdown
* Hold command+R and press power
* Launch terminal
* csrutil disable
* Reboot

* Run RRX installer

* Shutdown
* Hold command+R and press power
* Launch terminal
* csrutil enable
* Reboot

MISC
+) I have not tried this on my machine as it currently works - but am keen to find out if this solve the problem.
+) If this gets past the 'package not compatible error' - then this SIP solved the specific problem I think was hampering the install.
+) In the event there is a Second level of security that is not governed by SIP - you might also need to go into System Prefs -> Security & Privacy -> General and 'allow' the installer to run (as outline in the RED help online)
+) If we are not able get the installation to work - it may be that can manually copy the 'kext' file (ie the OS extension) directly into the directory.

AJ

 

[gillianseed]

Can confirm that the Terminal workaround didn't work.

 

[Antony Newman]

Gillian,

Thankyou for your feedback. It might useful to liaise with RED and share your performance details with them, as it may be in their interest to compile the steps needed to allow RRX Drivers to be installed in Catalina (especially as the RRX works in Catalina once the drivers are installed).

In the same position - I would either install Yosemite (ie a version of OSX that I could get the Red Package to install without intervention) and then reinstall Catalina - or 'HACK' the Rocket Driver in manually (which should be sufficient if there is no 'handshaking' between the rocket and the OS required as part the setup).

I will cobble together steps (off the net) for a manual 'Kext' Install in my next post. **

AJ

** UPDATE : 1 x Person succeeded in getting the RRX work in Catalina using these steps

 

[Antony Newman]

RED-ROCKET-X INSTALL in MacOS CATALINA

UPDATE : 2020 JUL 17 : Worked for 3 x People

As mentioned here at the steps involved in Manually Installing a 3rd Party Kernel Extension in Catalina
(Refs for steps at the bottom of the thread)

STAGE 1 : Get Kernel Extension(‘kext’ file ready)

+) Download redrocketx.kext.zip file from : https://we.tl/t-OuwHI9H9U1 <--- Only here for 1 week!
(this file will exist for the next 7 days in WeTransfer)
+) Decompress redrocketx.kext.zip on Desktop
+) Go into ‘Terminal’ App
+) Change directory to Desktop in ‘Terminal’

cd /Users/YOURUSERNAME/Desktop
(replace 'YOURUSERNAME' with your Desktop user name)

STAGE 2 : Before installing Kexts, disable Gate Keeper and mount the System Partition as Read/Write in ‘Terminal’

sudo spctl --master-disable
sudo mount -uw NOTE: Even if this Fails : The overall process can work
sudo killall Finder

STAGE 4 : Use ’Terminal’ to copy extension into directory (as copying with Finder will not work properly for kext files)

sudo cp -R redrocketx.kext /Library/Extensions

STAGE 5 : Repair permissions. Rebuild permissions in ‘Terminal’

sudo chown -v -R root:wheel /System/Library/Extensions
sudo touch /System/Library/Extensions
sudo chmod -v -R 755 /Library/Extensions
sudo chown -v -R root:wheel /Library/Extensions
sudo touch /Library/Extensions
sudo kextcache -i /

STAGE 6 : Reboot machine

With any luck at this point - this might be all that is needed to RocketX driver working in Catalina.

=============================
Reference information (1) Main script details on installing Kexts on Catalina gleaned from:
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/...an-sierra-high-sierra-mojave-catalina.268964/

Reference information (2): Location of 3rd party Kext files.
I used finder on my own Mac Pro 2013 running Catalina & RRX.

Reference information (3): I have checked the ownership of all files in /System/Library/Extensions on my machine to confirm they are all owned by ‘root:wheel’ (as detailed on the tonymacx86 site ref 1)

AJ

 

[DJ Meyer]

Can confirm that the Terminal workaround DOES NOT work. This is a pretty unbelievable turn of events. I just dropped around $24,000 upgrading to the 2019 Mac Pro from my old 2010 tower, and also got a new 8-bay SSD 32TB Thunderbolt3 RAID with 2200MB/s. My Alexa Mini render speeds jumped from 55fps to 248fps! Phantom speeds jumped from 29fps to 267fps! AND my RED Epic renders went from 55fps on the 2010 Mac Pro tower with RED Rocket-X to 44fps on the 2019 Mac Pro with the maxed out GPU AMD Radeon Pro Vega II Duo. WHAT? I'm honestly going to recommend to DPs to avoid the RED camera systems and stick with Alexa or Venice from now on. Doing 8k HELIUM dailies on commercials isn't even going to be feasible anymore on heavy shooting days without RED Rocket-X support.

Quite believable, actually. Rocket-X has been EOL for quite awhile and is not supported in Catalina. Apple’s abandonment of OpenCL has meant a lot of rework on the GPU compute side. If you can’t wait for the Metal port, you need a modern nvidia card on windows to go fast.

 

[Misha Engel]

Can confirm that the Terminal workaround DOES NOT work. This is a pretty unbelievable turn of events. I just dropped around $24,000 upgrading to the 2019 Mac Pro from my old 2010 tower, and also got a new 8-bay SSD 32TB Thunderbolt3 RAID with 2200MB/s. My Alexa Mini render speeds jumped from 55fps to 248fps! Phantom speeds jumped from 29fps to 267fps! AND my RED Epic renders went from 55fps on the 2010 Mac Pro tower with RED Rocket-X to 44fps on the 2019 Mac Pro with the maxed out GPU AMD Radeon Pro Vega II Duo. WHAT? I'm honestly going to recommend to DPs to avoid the RED camera systems and stick with Alexa or Venice from now on. Doing 8k HELIUM dailies on commercials isn't even going to be feasible anymore on heavy shooting days without RED Rocket-X support.

When you would have avoided the $24k Mac Pro and went for a $14k threadripper workstation with 2 RTX Titans on Windows or Linux you would be waiting for the release of a 12k red camera to put some pressure on the workstation, while still being able to use the rocket.

CPU: AMD Threadripper 3990X 2.9 GHz 64-Core Processor ($3899.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($171.48 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte TRX40 AORUS XTREME XL ATX sTRX4 Motherboard ($849.00 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 256 GB (8 x 32 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($1199.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 860 Evo 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($148.93 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 4 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($849.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 4 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($849.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: NVIDIA TITAN RTX 24 GB Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($2499.98 @ Amazon)
Video Card: NVIDIA TITAN RTX 24 GB Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($2499.98 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA T2 1600 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($459.99 @ B&H)

Total: $13589.31
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

 

[Michael Tiemann]

As mentioned here at the steps involved in Manually Installing a 3rd Party Kernel Extension in Catalina
(Refs for steps at the bottom of the thread)

STAGE 1 : Get Kernel Extension(‘kext’ file ready)

+) Download redrocketx.kext.zip file from : https://we.tl/t-tgHfGHhwnN
(this file will exist for the next 7 days in WeTransfer)
+) Decompress redrocketx.kext.zip on Desktop
+) Go into ‘Terminal’ App
+) Change directory to Desktop in ‘Terminal’

cd /Users/YOURUSERNAME/Desktop
(replace 'YOURUSERNAME' with your Desktop user name)

STAGE 2 : Before installing Kexts, disable Gate Keeper and mount the System Partition as Read/Write in ‘Terminal’

sudo spctl --master-disable
sudo mount -uw
sudo killall Finder

STAGE 4 : Use ’Terminal’ to copy extension into directory (as copying with Finder will not work properly for kext files)

sudo cp -R redrocketx.kext /Library/Extensions

STAGE 5 : Repair permissions. Rebuild permissions in ‘Terminal’

sudo chown -v -R root:wheel /System/Library/Extensions
sudo touch /System/Library/Extensions
sudo chmod -v -R 755 /Library/Extensions
sudo chown -v -R root:wheel /Library/Extensions
sudo touch /Library/Extensions
sudo kextcache -i /

STAGE 6 : Reboot machine

With any luck at this point - this might be all that is needed to RocketX driver working in Catalina.

=============================
Reference information (1) Main script details on installing Kexts on Catalina gleaned from:
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/...an-sierra-high-sierra-mojave-catalina.268964/

Reference information (2): Location of 3rd party Kext files.
I used finder on my own Mac Pro 2013 running Catalina & RRX.

Reference information (3): I have checked the ownership of all files in /System/Library/Extensions on my machine to confirm they are all owned by ‘root:wheel’ (as detailed on the tonymacx86 site ref 1)

AJ

AJ, that worked[1]!! I hope the RED team takes note and allows those of us with sunk RR-X costs to continue to use the RR-X until something better[2] comes along. Now at least I'm back to where I was performance-wise before Catalina upended everything.

[1] Not all of the steps worked: I could not change the root (/System) filesystem to read/write, but enough of the steps worked that I could install the kext and now Red Cine X sees my RR-X, which makes me happy.

[2] The 2019 Mac Pro, as many have pointed out, is OK for R3D *if* using FCP-X. But it's not Insanely Great when it comes to using Resolve, and as some are keen to point out, its value-for-money is absurd. If and when Radeon GPUs can offer the kind of debayering performance that nVidea offers on Windows, and/or one can order a machine with CPU performance like AMD's relatively recent Threadrippers, it just seems morally wrong to reward Apple with revenues they simply do not deserve.

 

[Antony Newman]

Michael,

You've just made my day - awesome news!

AJ

 

[gillianseed]

AJ, that worked[1]!! I hope the RED team takes note and allows those of us with sunk RR-X costs to continue to use the RR-X until something better[2] comes along. Now at least I'm back to where I was performance-wise before Catalina upended everything.

[1] Not all of the steps worked: I could not change the root (/System) filesystem to read/write, but enough of the steps worked that I could install the kext and now Red Cine X sees my RR-X, which makes me happy.

[2] The 2019 Mac Pro, as many have pointed out, is OK for R3D *if* using FCP-X. But it's not Insanely Great when it comes to using Resolve, and as some are keen to point out, its value-for-money is absurd. If and when Radeon GPUs can offer the kind of debayering performance that nVidea offers on Windows, and/or one can order a machine with CPU performance like AMD's relatively recent Threadrippers, it just seems morally wrong to reward Apple with revenues they simply do not deserve.

"it just seems morally wrong to reward Apple with revenues they simply do not deserve."

Really? The new Mac Pro 2019 increased my ALEXA renders by 450%, with a 60fps increased just from the Apple Afterburner alone. PHANTOM render speeds increased by 900% with the Mac Pro. The RED render speeds dropped by 20%. Something tells me Apple isn't the problem here.

 

[gillianseed]

When you would have avoided the $24k Mac Pro and went for a $14k threadripper workstation with 2 RTX Titans on Windows or Linux you would be waiting for the release of a 12k red camera to put some pressure on the workstation, while still being able to use the rocket.

CPU: AMD Threadripper 3990X 2.9 GHz 64-Core Processor ($3899.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($171.48 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte TRX40 AORUS XTREME XL ATX sTRX4 Motherboard ($849.00 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 256 GB (8 x 32 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($1199.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 860 Evo 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($148.93 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 4 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($849.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 4 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($849.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: NVIDIA TITAN RTX 24 GB Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($2499.98 @ Amazon)
Video Card: NVIDIA TITAN RTX 24 GB Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($2499.98 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA T2 1600 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($459.99 @ B&H)

Total: $13589.31
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

That $24,000 isn't exactly accurate. My Mac Pro was actually $15,000ish. I also spent another $2,000 on third party RAM that was arguably overkill. My SSD based RAID cost $6,500. Would love to know if that Windows machine you spec'd out can do 248fps ALEXA render speeds without an Apple Afterburner card.

 

[DJ Meyer]

"it just seems morally wrong to reward Apple with revenues they simply do not deserve."

Really? The new Mac Pro 2019 increased my ALEXA renders by 450%, with a 60fps increased just from the Apple Afterburner alone. PHANTOM render speeds increased by 900% with the Mac Pro. The RED render speeds dropped by 20%. Something tells me Apple isn't the problem here.

Imagine how much they would have sped up if you were on a high end workstation! Note you’re comparing your render speeds to a 10 year old machine.

I have a Mac Pro and I like it for rare instances when OSX is required, but using the right tool for the job is generally the best approach in the professional world.

 

[gillianseed]

Imagine how much they would have sped up if you were on a high end workstation! Note you’re comparing your render speeds to a 10 year old machine.

I have a Mac Pro and I like it for rare instances when OSX is required, but using the right tool for the job is generally the best approach in the professional world.

Correct, and ProRes is the 90% codec of choice for high-end film production, so a Mac Pro with an Afterburner card is probably the right tool for the job. The jobs I do that use RED cameras are always Directors that own the camera themselves. Just did a burger chain job for the video on their menu boards and we had stereotypical RED issues all day long related to glitches and weird color science. For example, the pink drink was showing up as orange in the RED and I had to isolate and color correct in Resolve. Also panicked the client whenever we played back slow-mo from camera because all the highlights turned into pink orbs. To my knowledge, ALEXA/VENICE/Phantom do not do these things. Had to Google the pink orb thing and found people talking about this issue going on 3 years and RED still hasn't fixed it. There was a discussion at the end of the job on what to use next time and it sounded like they may try Alexa next time. If they have the money, they go for ALEXA.

 

[DJ Meyer]

Correct, and ProRes is the 90% codec of choice for high-end film production, so a Mac Pro with an Afterburner card is probably the right tool for the job. The jobs I do that use RED cameras are always Directors that own the camera themselves. Just did a big McDonald's job for the video on their menu boards and we STILL had stereotypical RED issues all day long related to glitches and weird color science. For example, the pink lemonade slushie was showing up as orange in the RED and I had to isolate and color correct in Resolve. Also panicked the client whenever we played back slow-mo from camera because all the highlights turned into pink orbs. To my knowledge, ALEXA/VENICE/Phantom do not do these things. Had to Google the pink orb thing and found people talking about this issue going on 3 years and RED still hasn't fixed it. There was a big discussion at the end of the job on what to use next time and it sounded like they were going to rent Alexa from now on. No one really chooses to rent RED cameras. If they have the money, they go for ALEXA.

Why aren’t you recording ProRes on your Red shoots, if that is what you prefer to use?

 

[gillianseed]

When you would have avoided the $24k Mac Pro and went for a $14k threadripper workstation with 2 RTX Titans on Windows or Linux you would be waiting for the release of a 12k red camera to put some pressure on the workstation, while still being able to use the rocket.

CPU: AMD Threadripper 3990X 2.9 GHz 64-Core Processor ($3899.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($171.48 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte TRX40 AORUS XTREME XL ATX sTRX4 Motherboard ($849.00 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 256 GB (8 x 32 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($1199.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 860 Evo 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($148.93 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 4 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($849.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 4 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($849.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: NVIDIA TITAN RTX 24 GB Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($2499.98 @ Amazon)
Video Card: NVIDIA TITAN RTX 24 GB Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($2499.98 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA T2 1600 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($459.99 @ B&H)

Total: $13589.31
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Also, how would I export ProRes files out of Resolve on a Windows machine? I thought it wasn't possible except in Adobe products and Scratch, which doesn't work for me. DPs know and like Resolve, and 90% of post houses request ProRes dailies.

 

[DJ Meyer]

Also, how would I export ProRes files out of Resolve on a Windows machine? I thought it wasn't possible except in Adobe products and Scratch, which doesn't work for me. DPs know and like Resolve, and 90% of post houses request ProRes dailies.

You can record them in-camera or use RCX. You could even install an nVidia card in your Mac Pro and boot into windows to access CUDA if you want.

Lots of ways to get faster until Metal support is up to snuff.

 

[gillianseed]

It's not what I prefer, it's what a large majority of professional post houses request for dailies on each job. We typically use the native format of the camera, whether it's Phantom's Cine, Venice's X-OCN, RED's REDRAW and for Alexa it's mostly ProRes4444 or ARRIRAW on big-budget shoots. Shooting 8k ProRes4444 is not feasible on the RED system.

 

[DJ Meyer]

It's not what I prefer, it's what a large majority of professional post houses request for dailies on each job. We typically use the native format of the camera, whether it's Phantom's Cine, Venice's X-OCN, RED's REDRAW and for Alexa it's mostly ProRes4444 or ARRIRAW on big-budget shoots. Shooting 8k ProRes4444 is not feasible on the RED system.

You do you, man.

I usually shoot both r3d and prores at once.

 

[Misha Engel]

That $24,000 isn't exactly accurate. My Mac Pro was actually $15,000ish. I also spent another $2,000 on third party RAM that was arguably overkill. My SSD based RAID cost $6,500. Would love to know if that Windows machine you spec'd out can do 248fps ALEXA render speeds without an Apple Afterburner card.

248 fps for full-HD/2k? and what kind of ProRes?, to be honest I have no idea. What it can do is ~280 fps 4.6k BRAW at 3:1 (CPU limited) and so can the cheaper $2k cheaper 3970x (stock settings).

The biggest advantage of the workstation compared to the Mac Pro is that it can handle every current codec and resolution in realtime for a fraction of the price.
Our current systems (3950x) can only do ~180 fps 4.6k BRAW at 3:1 (the max we need at that resolution is 120 fps, the camera can't shoot more fps at that resolution).

 

[gillianseed]

You can record them in-camera or use RCX. You could even install an nVidia card in your Mac Pro and boot into windows to access CUDA if you want.

Lots of ways to get faster until Metal support is up to snuff.

We often use multiple bodies from different manufacturers on jobs. Did an AT&T spot that used two RED Heliums, an Alexa65, and Sony smaller prosumer cameras. Rebooting my entire system every other camera reload to change operating systems would be horribly inefficient, not to mention look unprofessional. Also cannot make ProRes files in Resolve on a Windows machine.