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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Ray

So... the thing has a FW800 port, and can decode REDCODE RAW to RGB at 4K in real-time. Seems like with the right software on the desktop and firmware on the device, you could stream REDCODE RAW to the device out of an editing app over FW400, and cut 4K in real-time with 4K monitoring, basically the same way you can stream DV out over FW400 through a deck to a monitor today.

Has Red given any thought to this? Even if it would be too hard to get this working with, say, Final Cut Pro, it would certainly solve the current issues with RedCine's lack of external monitoring options!

Incidentally, two hours of 4K in 9 GB doesn't seem that crazy for a distribution format. It's about 10 megabits/sec. H.264 can do perfectly watchable 2K at that data rate, and the H.264 spec was finished five years ago.

With the research that has probable happened over the last five years, and with the more complex algorithms that today's faster hardware (and particularly the sort of high-end DSP that could be in something like the Red Ray), 4K at that data rate seems fairly plausible. Especially since larger images are easier to compress in general, i.e. one doesn't expect a 4096x2304 image to take up four times as much space as a 2048x1152 image with anything but the most naive compression algorithm.
 
Now that I think of it, there's another interesting implication to the fact that the hardware to decode a REDCODE RAW signal at 4K costs less than $1000. Red could presumably take that decoder chip and stick it in a device that interfaced with the Red One (presumably through the side interface where the CF module gets installed) and spat out 1080p or even full 4K for on-set monitoring. And you'd actually be monitoring off the exact compressed signal the camera was recording, so you'd see exactly what you were getting, down to the compression artifacts... kind of like audio recorders that let you monitor from tape.

I wonder if this has been considered.
 
Red-ray

Red-ray

is redray intended for theatrical presentation?
Click to expand...

Its intended for 4K presentation to a 4K or 2K display - the environment where you place it is your choice.

(And if it only sees an HDTV panel it can downconvert the 4k material to 1080p or 720p)
 
Stuart English said:
Its intended for 4K presentation to a 4K or 2K display - the environment where you place it is your choice.

(And if it only sees an HDTV panel it can downconvert the 4k material to 1080p or 720p)
Click to expand...

Stuart is this your baby?

This is like the arrival of spring in mid January. Completly unexpected.
You guys are amazing.
 
Like I thought, Studios that make movies become the theaters that show them too.

Is this revolution attacking the ENTIRE movie industry chain?!
Very interesting prospects. :)
 
I've been doing digital video compression since pretty much it first existed and I'm really struggling with the idea that what they are claiming is at all possible.

I grilled a Red employee for about 10 minute about how 2+ hours of 4K simply can't fit onto a DVD 9 at any decent quality using any existing or upcoming compression technology. He swore it worked and handed me his card and said I would owe him a beer next year after he proved me wrong. Time will tell.

It now needs an interactive/menu layer. May I suggest HDi spec from HD-DVD, it's way easier to use than BDJ and basically equal in capabilities.
 
Okay, as more info comes out I have to say this is a big deal. Bravo Red!
 
I vaguely remember reading recently about people putting Hi-Def footage onto regular DVDs and then the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD (r.i.p.) crowd got a bit upset at their big outlay...
 
davecw said:
I vaguely remember reading recently about people putting Hi-Def footage onto regular DVDs and then the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD (r.i.p.) crowd got a bit upset at their big outlay...
Click to expand...

Well sure, you can do that today with any H264 codec or DivX, and there are many compatible DVD players with a Sigma Designs chip out there that will read these DivX HD files on regular DVDs. But here we're talking 4K, and hopefully a better codec.

I was following NME's HD-VMD development, which also seemed very interesting from a technological point of view. They also use red laser, but with new multi-layer discs. They were trying to go against Bluray and HD-DVD. But they don't have a burner available unfortunately. www.nmeinc.com
 
Red-ray

Red-ray

I was following NME's HD-VMD development, which seemed very interesting from a technological point of view. They also use red laser, but with multi-layer discs.
Click to expand...

Or you use an existing (hence low cost) media and work out the math so that the information you need to represent fits onto that media.

We were told we could not do that (4K REDCODE RAW to CF cards) :matrix: that is the logic again with RED-RAY (4K to DVD-9)
 
What misses in the RedRay equation is panels and projectors... Hm... :)

And the ability to "compress" RGB to "REDRAW" (because it isn't "RAW") after post.

Guess noone thought of that... :)
 
Stuart, you have all my attention! :)

This could become very interesting (understatement) for indie theatrical digital distribution, as more and more screens get equipped with 2K/4K projectors.
 
Red Ray is indeed a very important development.

Red Ray may do to distribution what Red One is doing to acquisition.
Scarlet may do to HDV/P2 what HDV did to Digibeta


Like many others who have suggested ideas involving both products some time back, I'm impressed that Red are listening.


But which end of 2009?




Mike Brennan
 
Stuart English said:
Or you use an existing (hence low cost) media and work out the math so that the information you need to represent fits onto that media.

We were told we could not do that (4K REDCODE RAW to CF cards) :matrix: that is the logic again with RED-RAY (4K to DVD-9)
Click to expand...
Ok, just to play devil's advocate: By the time Red Ray actually ships (early 2009) Blu Ray burners and media will probably have become much more standard and affordable. 25 GB BD-R are already fairly cheap. Why not also use that higher capacity to your advantage in order to offer less compressed options? Licensing costs?
 
I posted this in another thread but wanted to pose the question here: Right now, to me, this is the biggest announcement at NAB. I just feel this is going to be huge. But my question is...What's the point in having something that can output 4k media if you don't have anything that can playback 4k? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but unless you've got $50k to spend on a Sony projector, you're kind of shit-out-of-luck.
 
Steven-Marc said:
Ok, just to play devil's advocate: By the time Red Ray actually ships (early 2009) Blu Ray burners and media will probably have become much more standard and affordable. 25 GB BD-R are already fairly cheap. Why not also use that higher capacity to your advantage in order to offer less compressed options? Licensing costs?
Click to expand...

Sony?
 
4k projectors/TVs/monitors may not be commonplace yet, but in the meantime Red Ray can output 1080p and 720p. Then, when you finally do get a 4k display, you can rewatch everything for a whole new experience. I suspect, barring a surprise RED Display announcement, Red Ray will serve its first few years primarily as a downscaling (!) DVD player.
 
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