RED Present 4K Workflow

[mezmo]

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the reply, I'll take your advice on taking one
member of the edit team thru the post process. Not possible
on the last project but i'll budget it into the next.
You often choose an editor because of cutting and timing skills but
these guys/girls tend to be less concerned with logging and
the data management area. Yes, the good old days of film,
job descriptions simple, 100 years to get the process right.
I may consider employing a full time editing assistant at my
place and have him/her manage all things editorial and digital.
Digital Film cameras like Red/SI will produce millions of frames to
be managed and I'm not looking forward to these unique file
based stuff ups. Ow well it's a brave new world.
Got to be in it to win it.
Thanks again, Mezmo.

 

[Tai Wah Lim]

Hardware requirement for 4K Scratch

Hardware requirement for 4K Scratch

As usual, Mike is right. If you're going to spend a bunch of money buying a cool camera and peripherals, why in the world would you skimp on an extra computer to run things as fast as they should run?

The best (and only) computer for RED Alert is an Intel Mac. REDCINE will run equally well on an Intel Mac w/ATI X1900 and an Intel/AMD PC w/NVidia 4600. Final Cut runs on OSX. Media Composer runs on XP and OSX. SCRATCH will run best and with the fullest feature set on a PC.

Get the best tool for the job - and that includes the best OS and best computer. If you are going to build an end-to-end RED ONE workflow with all native components, the path is really clear.

Get a beefy Intel Mac for RED Alert, FCP, and REDCINE.
Get a beefy PC for REDCINE and SCRATCH.
Tie them together with 10gigE, or some other really fast networking protocol.

Done.

You can use Avid, Adobe, Sony, Quantel, Autodesk, or any other application you like. I personally use Vegas and FCP at home for editorial.
But any non-native application has obvious workflow implications.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

Hi Lucas,

I remembered asking for the local contact for buying a Scratch solution and did not get any answer.

I managed to get someone here to quote me a Scratch. However, they said the hardware configured is only limited to 2K process.

What is the hardware needed for using Scratch for 4K??

Lim

 

[mezmo]

Hi Luki,
Funny post mate, you sound like some funky spaced
out Scratch fanboy. I laughed out load.
I know I have (not need) to have one foot in the post/
conform door but if it's possible to keep the other foot out
I'll do it. Setting up some big MaFa post facility is out of
the question and out of my reach. Maybe software like Cineform
(now Mac friendly) would help here. It does output
DPX I think and I know I would still require a Scratch/Speedgrade
or whatever grade to final finish and Film-out.
What do you think? Is this a viable option? Or Framecycler DI?
Cheers Mezmo.

 

[M Most]

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the reply, I'll take your advice on taking one
member of the edit team thru the post process.....
I may consider employing a full time editing assistant at my
place and have him/her manage all things editorial and digital.

Provided you get someone with some experience, it'll be the best post production money you've ever spent. Best of luck on the future projects.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

WTF?

OMG - I ASKED FOR A PRODUCT PRICE IN PUBLIC. HOLY CRAP!!!!! WHAT WAS I THINKING??? Nobody does that for EVERY other product around here.

Scratch doesn't have a price range? Like... lowest cost version is $X but most people get $Y and if you want everything you get $DD.

Or how about - hardware prices change all the time so we do custom quotes... but generally you're going to be around $X.

Or - The Scratch software is $X but you'll need hardware that costs $Y. We may be able to integrate with what you've already got... let's talk.

What... do I need to fly out there and do a day of sales training?

SCRATCH does have a price range, and it is $X and you will probably need hardware that costs $Y. Let's talk. My work e-mail is
lucas at assimilateinc dot com.

I don't discuss specific pricing out in the open for a wide variety of really good reasons - but mostly because it's rude. This is Jarred's forum, and he is kind of enough to let me post stuff that toes the bleeding edge of openly commercial. But getting into a price negotiation out in the open steps WAY over that line.

But please do contact me offlist and we can discuss it!

Best,

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi Lucas,

I remembered asking for the local contact for buying a Scratch solution and did not get any answer.

I managed to get someone here to quote me a Scratch. However, they said the hardware configured is only limited to 2K process.

What is the hardware needed for using Scratch for 4K??

Lim

Lim,

Hello - we have a very good partner located in Singapore that can help you. Please contact me offlist at lucas at assimilateinc dot com, and I can connect you with them.

Best,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Tai Wah Lim]

Lim,

Hello - we have a very good partner located in Singapore that can help you. Please contact me offlist at lucas at assimilateinc dot com, and I can connect you with them.

Best,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

Thanks, just sent you the email.

Lim

 

[Joel Kaye]

I don't discuss specific pricing out in the open for a wide variety of really good reasons - but mostly because it's rude.

There have been about 30 other RED related products discussed with pricing being part of the discussion. I don't believe that anyone has felt the reps of those companies were rude for mentioning pricing.

No moderator here shut those thread down or warned anyone for breaking some "social trust".

Your pristine reputation remains unsullied.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

There have been about 30 other RED related products discussed with pricing being part of the discussion. I don't believe that anyone has felt the reps of those companies were rude for mentioning pricing.

As my momma used to say, "If all your friends were going to jump off the bridge, would you do it too?" I choose not to, for good reasons.

No moderator here shut those thread down or warned anyone for breaking some "social trust". Your pristine reputation remains unsullied.

It's really simple. If you want to talk about prices, contact me offlist. If you prefer to try and badger me into talking about prices on reduser, well... have fun with that.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Joel Kaye]

badgering

It's totally fair for you to not discuss prices in a forum. That's fine.

Earlier I was reacting to another post - not you or your company. I apologize if that wasn't clear.

In a follow up message I clearly emphasized I didn't have any problem with Scratch to make it more clear.

From my standpoint all I did was ask for a price and pretty much got called rude for doing that. Twice.

How would you feel if you were in my spot?

 

[GlennChan]

Joel, I think you misinterpreted Michael's posts. His posts are generally helpful and/or informative. Perhaps they do not come off that way but they are. He was pointing you in the right direction and explaining why you should contact him [Lucas] off-list.

The Internet can be a little weird in that it's so easy to misinterpret what others are saying.

 

[Joel Kaye]

Joel, I think you misinterpreted Michael's posts.
The Internet can be a little weird in that it's so easy to misinterpret what others are saying.

Yeah? I stepped up to the plate and tried to clarify my position and even offered an apology...

I simply don't appreciate being called rude for asking what EVERYONE here asks about EVERY product ever mentioned on these boards.

Look - I did sales and sales managment for years... someone's always going to ask the price. It's not rude.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Yeah? I stepped up to the plate and tried to clarify my position and even offered an apology...

I simply don't appreciate being called rude for asking what EVERYONE here asks about EVERY product ever mentioned on these boards.

Look - I did sales and sales managment for years... someone's always going to ask the price. It's not rude.

Joel,

Easy man... I just reread this entire thread and nobody called you rude. I said I would be rude if started talking openly about SCRATCH pricing on a list that wasn't mine.

Of course people are going to ask the price, and it's not rude to ask... I'm just saying I'm not going to discuss price here, openly, at reduser.

If I had your private e-mail address, I would have sent you a private e-mail long ago. I don't. But I will be happy to discuss pricing with you privately. Please email me at lucas at assimilateinc dot com.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[M Most]

I simply don't appreciate being called rude for asking what EVERYONE here asks about EVERY product ever mentioned on these boards.

I just re-read both of my posts, and I really fail to understand how they could be interpreted as calling you rude. I simply pointed out that a private message to Lucas would probably be a better way to get the information you want, both because I happen to know Lucas, but more specifically, because he has posted countless times here that he would rather be contacted privately when it comes to talking about pricing and purchasing of his product. I also mentioned that I support his position, but that had nothing to do with you. If you interpreted it any other way, well, it wasn't meant any other way.

 

[Joel Kaye]

All right fair enough guys. I apologize. I misunderstood.

Thanks for clarifying!

 

[mezmo]

Hi Guys,
I think most people here just want a ballpark
estimate on a system like Scratch. last year it
was $35K for software, $55K complete,whatever
that means. I'd would say a lot more money would
need to be spent on a SAN or disk array system and
HD/2k projection. Email Luki, as this info came from
last years Assimilate PDF's.
Speedgrade DI is about the same price range for software
at $40K (can be Mac based) and uses Framecycler DI (don't have
have a firm price on this) to drive all those 2K frames along.
It's a big PC based box for all that heavy duty frame crunchin.
I'm told a working DI system is about $100K without projection
for Speedgrade and Framecycler DI's. It depends on who you get to
build up the disk or SAN system. How big how small, that sort of thing.
It's just been used by FUEL in Australia to complete "Rogue" a
croc thriller movie by the guy who made "Wolf Creek". So it's no toy.
Correct me if I'm wrong here Luki. All prices are US dollars.
Cheers Mezmo.

 

[Joe Carney]

Hi Guys,
I think most people here just want a ballpark
estimate on a system like Scratch. last year it
was $35K for software, $55K complete,whatever
that means. I'd would say a lot more money would
need to be spent on a SAN or disk array system and
HD/2k projection. Email Luki, as this info came from
last years Assimilate PDF's.
Speedgrade DI is about the same price range for software
at $40K (can be Mac based) and uses Framecycler DI (don't have
have a firm price on this) to drive all those 2K frames along.
It's a big PC based box for all that heavy duty frame crunchin.
I'm told a working DI system is about $100K without projection
for Speedgrade and Framecycler DI's. It depends on who you get to
build up the disk or SAN system. How big how small, that sort of thing.
It's just been used by FUEL in Australia to complete "Rogue" a
croc thriller movie by the guy who made "Wolf Creek". So it's no toy.
Correct me if I'm wrong here Luki. All prices are US dollars.
Cheers Mezmo.

SpeedGrade 2007 HD is 11K USD per seat. Their onset software went up in price to 599.00. This is advertised on their site. SpeedGrade 2007 DI prices are not.

 

[laguun]

SpeedGrade 2007 HD is 11K USD per seat. Their onset software went up in price to 599.00. This is advertised on their site. SpeedGrade 2007 DI prices are not.

9.995 euros for their software.
they will also add ~ a month trial.

their product is as good as scratch. both have advantages and disadvantages.
scratch was between 14.000 and 55.000$

thats more expensive.
and variable.

i dislike that.

also, scratch is a cd--rom.
not a system.
evetryone can combine a nvidia card and a raid.
only uneducated people need a reseller to do this.

otoh: i liked scratch very much.

it has become a powerful di system. but nothing special.

 

[David Kirlew]

9.995 euros for their software.
they will also add ~ a month trial.

their product is as good as scratch. both have advantages and disadvantages.
scratch was between 14.000 and 55.000$

thats more expensive.
and variable.

i dislike that.

also, scratch is a cd--rom.
not a system.
evetryone can combine a nvidia card and a raid.
only uneducated people need a reseller to do this.

otoh: i liked scratch very much.

it has become a powerful di system. but nothing special.

Laguun what disadvantages and advantages do Speedgrade and Scratch offer? What do you mean by scratch is a cd-rom not a system?

 

[laguun]

Laguun what disadvantages and advantages do Speedgrade and Scratch offer? What do you mean by scratch is a cd-rom not a system?

speedgrade and scratch are excellent softwares.
however, both are just software.

i would estimate that there are less than 10 people working in their HQ R&D.
so, to the question. scratch and speeedgrade both use gpus (graphic cards) to be faster in their systems.

there is -no- secret sauce about that.

basic color filters as in AE 4.0,. every student can code this within months.

what i like abiot scratch:
+ scaffold.

and speedgrade? much better 3d. in scratch secondary CC goes off if you do 3D conforming. clear pricing. colorcorrection and 3k is pretty much the same. At 5D/assimilate one manufacturers employee however trashtalked.

both have no redcode support as of yet. this might be a decision of red, anyhow.