RED Present 4K Workflow

[Tai Wah Lim]

Hi Guys,
I think most people here just want a ballpark
estimate on a system like Scratch. last year it
was $35K for software, $55K complete,whatever
that means. I'd would say a lot more money would
need to be spent on a SAN or disk array system and
HD/2k projection. Email Luki, as this info came from
last years Assimilate PDF's.
Speedgrade DI is about the same price range for software
at $40K (can be Mac based) and uses Framecycler DI (don't have
have a firm price on this) to drive all those 2K frames along.
It's a big PC based box for all that heavy duty frame crunchin.
I'm told a working DI system is about $100K without projection
for Speedgrade and Framecycler DI's. It depends on who you get to
build up the disk or SAN system. How big how small, that sort of thing.
It's just been used by FUEL in Australia to complete "Rogue" a
croc thriller movie by the guy who made "Wolf Creek". So it's no toy.
Correct me if I'm wrong here Luki. All prices are US dollars.
Cheers Mezmo.

Just went to the Speedgrade DI site. Saw that they are using a Vietnamese Film "Rebel" as screenshots on their product overview. Comments from the people watching this movie are that the color grading is atrocious - not consistent and bad. Could it be the product or the colorist?

 

[Lucas Wilson]

speedgrade and scratch are excellent softwares.
however, both are just software.

i would estimate that there are less than 10 people working in their HQ R&D.
so, to the question. scratch and speeedgrade both use gpus (graphic cards) to be faster in their systems.

there is -no- secret sauce about that.

Hmmm... that's sort of like saying, "A Ferrari and a Buick both use turbochargers to go faster. There is -no- secret sauce about that." That's just silly. Of course there are variables in how GPU coding is done...

what i like abiot scratch:
+ scaffold.

and speedgrade? much better 3d. in scratch secondary CC goes off if you do 3D conforming. clear pricing. colorcorrection and 3k is pretty much the same. At 5D/assimilate one manufacturers employee however trashtalked.

(sigh) If you're going to compare products, then please compare them... why do you think that the 3D is better in Speedgrade? I'm happy to discuss feature sets, but let's discuss them instead of throwing out opinions.

And "secondary CC goes off if you do 3D conforming?" Huh?

both have no redcode support as of yet. this might be a decision of red, anyhow.

Sorry, but that's just flat out untrue. We've been showing REDCODE support since NAB.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[mezmo]

Hi Laguun,
Thanks for the pricing information on Speedgrade.
Any idea on the price of a Framecycler DI system (has basic
grading and compile s/ware) with storage to compile a 100min Feature Film @ 2K?
Also is the 9,995 euro for Speedgrade DI?
Many thanks, Mezmo

 

[David Kirlew]

Hi Laguun,
Also is the 9,995 euro for Speedgrade DI?
Many thanks, Mezmo

I'm not laguun, but I believe Speedgrade HD is 9,995 euro

 

[mezmo]

Hi dkirlew,
Speedgrade DI is a totally different animal to
Speedgrade HD. As I understand it the pricing would
not be the same.
Laguun seems to be in the know here.
FramecyclerDI may be included in Speedgrade DI. ?.
Framecycler DI can be purchased as a standalone system
for compile/2K playback and basic grading.
And yes Speedgrade HD
is 9,995 euro and available for OSX, Windows & Linux.
Speedgrade DI can also directly import Cineform files as I understand it.
We'll get to the crux of all this eventually, thanks for your interest
Mezmo

 

[laguun]

Hi dkirlew,
Speedgrade DI is a totally different animal to
Speedgrade HD. As I understand it the pricing would
not be the same.
Laguun seems to be in the know here.

its exactly the same product.

they only limit input resolution.
10bit. 1080p rgb 444.

FramecyclerDI may be included in Speedgrade DI. ?.

it is.
several pipelines, as matrix 2 and matrix 3 (etc) used it in the early years.

is 9,995 euro and available for OSX, Windows & Linux.
Speedgrade DI can also directly import Cineformed DPX as I understand it.
We'll get to the crux of all this eventually, thanks for your interest
Mezmo

once more: speedgrade supports raw.
arrri d20.
s/i 2k
phantom 65
speedcam
etc. since years. red doesn´t open their codec - yet.
they ->clearly<- say: as "the" pioneers of DI, GPU basing colorcorrection and the ones with by far more products sold delivered than dvs clipster, quantel pablo , 5d cyborg and assimilate scratch
together:

maximum debayer is -not- possible by gpu
sufficient quality? yes. maximum? no.
fcp at 8 bit rgb and etc - is a clever choice.
but we will go for quality.

 

[Rob Lohman]

Laguun: Assimilate does sell systems, and support, it's not "just" a cd-rom as you claim it is. Please see my last post in this thread: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4468&page=9

It looks like you've completely made up your mind on SpeedGrade & Scratch. That's fine, but please don't start doing the FUD thing and saying things that just aren't true.

they only limit input resolution. 10bit. 1080p rgb 444.

And Scratch does 4K. So that's not a fair comparison for 9.995 euro (which is almost $14000) now is it?

they ->clearly<- say: as "the" pioneers of DI, GPU basing colorcorrection and the ones with by far more products sold delivered than dvs clipster, quantel pablo , 5d cyborg and assimilate scratch together:

Personally I don't always trust marketing talk.... they would also need to quantify *what* they've exactly sold. Comparing HD versions to 4K Scratch and Pablo's ain't exactly fair again.

maximum debayer is -not- possible by gpu
sufficient quality? yes. maximum? no.

And you know this how?

fcp at 8 bit rgb and etc - is a clever choice.
but we will go for quality.

We? FCP actually renders Y'CbCr in 32-bit float if your input codec and output codec support that. This is what REDCODE (and ProRes for example) support. REDCODE also supports 10-bit Y'CbCr and will support 16-bit RGB shortly (which FCP does not use, but Shake for example does).

Of course RED ALERT, REDCINE and Scratch are full 32-bit floating-point.

 

[mezmo]

Hi Laguun,
Sorry, I've got you in trouble with all my questions,
Thanks for the reply. A Scratch/Speedgrade discussion
may be a good subject for a new post workflow thread.
I've got onto the Assimilate guy now and will get more info
from him.
Thanks again.
Mezmo.

 

[mezmo]

Hi Lagunn again,
Maybe a new shoot-out workflow film-out thread.
Red/Redcode/Scratch vs Si2K/Cineform/Speedgrade.
Could be interesting. Maybe a little expensive,
with all test footage burned to 35mm and screened.
Just thinking out load here.
Mezmo.