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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED party reel powered by RED RAY

We showed REDray for the very 1st time tonight. Trust me when I say that many people will see this reel (10 mbit/sec) very soon. Ray Charles can see that there are a ton of opportunities for REDray to make a difference for a variety of uses.

Jim
 
obin said:
I watched, thought nothing of it and almost pissed my pants when Ted said it was redray!! at 10megabits/sec...I can't see how..not 4k....not what I saw......it looked, well, pretty much the same as the un compressed.
Click to expand...

Just got back from the party. I had same reaction as obin. It looked amazing.
BTW, Obin did a great job on his adobe workflow presentation.
 
Jannard said:
We showed REDray for the very 1st time tonight. Trust me when I say that many people will see this reel (10 mbit/sec) very soon. Ray Charles can see that there are a ton of opportunities for REDray to make a difference for a variety of uses.

Jim
Click to expand...

LA SCREENING!!!!!!!!! :happyhappy:
 
Top of the morning to ya! :beer:

I should have drove up, but Michelle wouldn't like the idea of me going to Vegas alone when she is stuck working nights this week.
 
Is it a bridge too far to state that this could be a solution for movie theatres as well? And if so, if Jim has thought about that?

By the way, great work guys. I'm not a 'real' Reduser - don't have the money, but a big supporter since the beginning in 2006 or so, and if I'll shoot my first (or second, or...) movie, I'm pretty sure it will be with a camera from RED.

Hard to believe 4k at that bit rate, but 'hard to believe' seems to be a motto around here...
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Top of the morning to ya! :beer:

I should have drove up, but Michelle wouldn't like the idea of me going to Vegas alone when she is stuck working nights this week.
Click to expand...

Women can't live with........ :rofl:. My wife (when I get to see her) calls reduser my second wife hahaahhaa.
 
Jannard said:
We showed REDray for the very 1st time tonight. Trust me when I say that many people will see this reel (10 mbit/sec) very soon. Ray Charles can see that there are a ton of opportunities for REDray to make a difference for a variety of uses.

Jim
Click to expand...

So, Jim, by a ton of opportunities you mean that people will be watching amazing quality HD movies from REDray in their homes on their :couch:?

Just wondering when people ask if they should buy a Blu-Ray for their HDTV if I should tell them "You take the Blu pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the RED pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
 
Jannard said:
We showed REDray for the very 1st time tonight. Trust me when I say that many people will see this reel (10 mbit/sec) very soon. Ray Charles can see that there are a ton of opportunities for REDray to make a difference for a variety of uses.

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim,

isn't it just RED RAY, but also the actual codec being used in it, that makes the surprise?

Beside the fact that most of us want a distribution system such as RED RAY for our content, the option to use a codec for computerbased playback is an interesting story for itself, regardless if streaming content from websites at some point (and lower resolutions) or simply playing back files from a disk.

Clearly a 4K decode needs hardware at this time. Looking forward to what kind of magic you come up with.

Big question from my side:

Will that codec be "adjustable" in terms of data rates?

Compressing content for a DVD distribution is surely different thing than compressing it to store it as a master in an archive. But that is a real challenge for us in post production. When a 700:1 as Michael explained is performing acceptable for "review" which data rate would be performing acceptable for "mastering"?

Thanks,
Axel
 
Well, good looking 4K at 10Mbit/s is amazing by any standards, but if one thinks it's visually lossless compared to uncompressed 4K with actual 4K detail (or at least beyond 3K) then one is mistaken. Information theory can not be circumvented, not with wavelets or anything else. It helps that all Red footage is precompressed with wavelets and usually (very) clean. So apparently when compressing this by another factor of ~20 it can be done without doing too much obvious harm to the images looked at in real time. I guess RedRay unlike the Red camera, who compresses intraframe only, compresses interframe based on the wavelet data of each frame using all the additional correlations this brings about and gets away with an average 10 Mbit/s on not too critical footage (strictly noise limited, motion under control), but what are the required peaks?? Also, wavelet artifacts are not as obvious as DCT blocking. But if you know what to look for you will see the degradation compared to the master nonetheless.
Anyway, if it's as good looking as claimed it's quite an accomplishment.
 
Ray Charles indeed.

I have to admit I am very curious about the bandwidth and computational details, especially on the decoder side. h.264 is very CPU intensive, how does REDray compare to that?

And I know you're a digital cinema company, cheap 4K distribution to cinemas is very cool, but at what bit rate do start to get awesomeness at 1080p24? Can you get away with a 2.5Mbit? That equates to a rather unacceptable 720p in h.264...

And Patents or no patents, your encoder software/hardware would sell like crazy. I can't imagine you're doing things which cannot be decoded by the current GPUs or next years. Play this right and a heck of a lot of video would be delivered using your codecs. Bandwidth is getting cheaper, but bandwidth reduction of this magnitude... Websites like Vimeo would love to squeeze some more out of it.
 
Michael_PlasterCITY said:
We screened two reels tonight - one was Red 300 (debuted last September at IBC) and the new Red 400 (finished at like 3AM Friday morning).

The Red 400 original files were mastered as 16bit TIFFs (4096x2304), roughly 51MBs per frame. That's an uncompressed data rate of 1.3GBs per second.

The Red 300 was mastered as 10bit DPX (4096x2048) at roughly 32MBs per frame or about 750MBs per second.

We screened the uncompressed version of the Red 400 (scaled to 3840x2160) and followed it with the RedRay encoded Red 300.

Here is the mind-bender:
The Red 400 total file size is roughly 320GBs
The Red 300 total file size is roughly 450MBs

The secret obviously lies in the power of wavlets when put in the hands a dedicated and talented team. I edited and supervised the 4K DIs on both those reels and I was astonished at the quality of the high frequency compression response. Even if there was visible compression in the low frequency (none of us were happy with the projection tonight, but then again, we were in a ballroom...) who cares at a 700x StuffIt!!

michael
Click to expand...

Michael - If you can spare my tired brain the math, what were the runtimes of each reel?
 
Better ask:

Can a RED RAY file be played on a standart computer in a proxy mode?
And will we be able to encode via software, or must we have a hardware?
Or will hardware just again accelerate this processing?

Questions over questions...

To many beans tonight, to many... :)

Axel
 
I sure hope someone will be putting together something like this at IBC in Amsterdam and have the same kind of support as NAB.
 
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