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Red Or Not Red

D

Dino Jakovic

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Hi guys i have abut 4 to 5k maybe 6k to spend on new camera i been looking on ebay and found Red One Mysterium-X for 6500k or best offer and it comes pretty much ready to shoot. I know it can be big and heavy but but what you get is one amazing camera. My other option was canon mk3 or black magic 4k but all those will run me here in Canada abut 4000 with tax give or take few dollars and then of course extra crap battery storage media cards after everything it would be 4500 to 5 k this cam can shoot 4.5k all the way down to HD with 13+ stops DYNAMIC RANGE AUDIO 4 channel, uncompressed, 24 bit, 48KHz. and SENSOR 14 MEGAPIXEL MYSTERIUM just to name few options if i get a camera like this i mean it wont get old and its not plagued with problems like Black magic and their delays on upgrades and fixing problems or is a hack like Magic Lantern. If i go with Red One Mysterium-X since i don't have a strong comp can istill edit 4k images without red rocket what formats can Mysterium-X shoot at and i have set of yahsica ml lenses primes how do i now if they can be use on Mysterium-X

Thanks guys
 
I'd be tempted by some of the used Scarlets at around that price too.
 
Another vote for Scarlet. Make sure you really know the limitations of the Red One- not the performance, which is great- but the handling, weight, boot up time, available mounts and flexibility. The Red One is a Cinema Camera of the "old", pre DSMC RED revolution times. Its a camera that trully is at its best when there are at least 2 people operating and shooting. Definitely not the most one man band friendly.
 
For me, the single greatest reason to shoot RED is raw; specifically, REDcode. To my knowledge, there is no other camera that shoots raw with anywhere near the same ease. The raw from other cameras is often difficult and expensive to use. Raw is part of RED's DNA and it gives you immense power over the image at all stages. Oddly, that sophistication makes the camera very forgiving for those of us who don't have the skills of Roger Deakins. Simply by learning to use the camera as intended, we start getting great images. And, in the process, can learn a ton along the way.

Take the RED pill. You will not regret it.
 
I know several here on Reduser who continue to work using their R1. It is a tank with benefits. Good news is you can go with it or possibly a Scarlet depending on your available funds and/or needs. Either way, it's a good camera system.
 
It would depend on what you are going to shoot primarily. Not a good choice for documentary. Better for controlled environment narrative. Even so I'd go with a used Scarlet. With recent RED developments Scarlet and accessories will be getting really cheap, especially media. I also wouldn't buy a RED on ebay, unless a really trusted source, they are sensitive cameras (computers essentially) that need to be well maintained.

Plus 6.5K for a 5 year old camera is too expensive.
 
I would go with the A7s, Atomos shogun, some Rokinon lenses, V-lock batt an plate, a Zacuto gunner for handheld and a Nebula 4000 for gimbal. You'll get around 6k.
The A7s gets you about 15stops in log, this setup can last you 1 or 2 years and you'll get the most out of it making some experience and money with pretty good picture quality. You won't shoot R3D but it's going to be a great 6k choice. The day you'll have good money and work, you'll be able to enter the Weapon wagon with more confidence.

The worst that could happen is your gonna have a RED ONE sitting on that desk for this particular project you'll try to finance.

The story would be really different if you would have 20k to spend.


Pat
 
Patrick Tresch said:
I would go with the A7s, Atomos shogun, some Rokinon lenses, V-lock batt an plate, a Zacuto gunner for handheld and a Nebula 4000 for gimbal. You'll get around 6k.
The A7s gets you about 15stops in log, this setup can last you 1 or 2 years and you'll get the most out of it making some experience and money with pretty good picture quality. You won't shoot R3D but it's going to be a great 6k choice. The day you'll have good money and work, you'll be able to enter the Weapon wagon with more confidence.

The worst that could happen is your gonna have a RED ONE sitting on that desk for this particular project you'll try to finance.

The story would be really different if you would have 20k to spend.


Pat
Click to expand...
Nicely stated. Buy the A7s and then make money. You can always hire the latest RED camera when your project needs it. Or wait till NAB and see if there is something new coming.
PS: I would not buy anything from ebay and without RED's approval.
 
Hmm thanks guys for help. I a beginner and as i said i have 5k to 7k to spend i found RED ONE Mysterium X 4K/4.5K Cinema Camera PL Mount CF SD for 12k but i can make offer i really don't mind the weight if i can get quality image and i am sick and tired of canon raw magic lantern working and not working or slow updates with black magic cameras and problems its like you really dot know what you will get

Her is the link to the 2 camera can you tell me if it is ready to shoot or i need to spend more money. I also have set of prime lenses yahsica ml from 24mm to 135mm can they be use on this camera.

1-http://www.ebay.com/itm/RED-ONE-MX-Package-Everything-You-Need-To-Shoot-Today-/201291010099?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2edde11033

2-http://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-One-MX-Camera-Body-Accessories-/221675486319?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339ce37c6f

Cam 1 has low hours

Thanks guys
[h=1][/h]
 
Alan Gordon has some for sale as well.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/161510348994

I feel the SSD module turns this into a very viable camera for an indie filmmaker. If you do lots of handheld, get an Easy Rig. I'm not a big guy and I've shot handheld with a R1 for an entire day. Just rig it properly and you can get by. As for being able to get the camera on and off a tripod, it's not that heavy. 25-30 pounds in most cases and as light as 15-20 the way I often have it rigged. Those are not heavy weights. I have found that it helps to train like an athlete to be a camera operator and even things like Yoga and dance classes might add some finesse and agility. 50 lbs is heavy and will takes it toll. 25lbs when you are in shape, not so much.
 
Hi guys dino here thanks for all the help. I been searching high and low and i believe i found my baby Red MX FOR 3500 here are some images and can you tell what i am missing to have it reedy to shoot. I mean 3500 is really good price i would spend more on Black magic or canon mark 3 with extra staff. So basically this camera can do 4.5K RAW i don't believe at beginning i will shoot 4k 2k is my start i have mac pro 2009 16gb memory quad core 2.66 2 gtx 660 running resolve and premiere pro 4tb raid array 0. Will i need any addition hardware to run play with 2k raw from red. Where dng in black magic or raw in canon is easy to convert and use is it same here or do i need red rocket.

Thanks again guys






 
Last edited:
Hello,
Shooting 2k is not like shooting a downscaled from the 4k sensor. Shooting 2k with RED camera is windowing the sensor (cropping) to 2000 pixels (or close) this means you'r going to throw away infos (a lot) and your final picture won't be even good enough for a HD delivery (noise and lack of details will pop up). Don't shoot less than 3k for a HD delivery. A simple hint is : you'll get 70% of the recording resolution you'r shooting at due to the debayering process. If you want to gain disk space, I would rather shoot 4,5k at higher compression ratio than 2k at lowest compression.
Read around the forum, test Redcine X with some R3D, try to grade them, push them breake it (if possible) and you'll see what choice you'll have to make.

Pat
 
Yes, As patrick says always shoot highest resolution posssible. The files are still not that heavy. r3d´s are compressed and packed. So better aim as high bit rate as possible. Then your computer set the limit for playback.

Normal workflow is to:

1. transcode all material to low resolution proxies and do a "offline edit" from those. You do not need a rocket tom make such. It´s a bit depending on your graphics car how fast the proxies can be done. And also what resolution and proxy setting you use. if rendering HD with proress proxy resolution from half debayer it would move quite quick on your machine I would think I dont know how fast the GTX 660 is. but a Nvidia card for 600 USD renders really quick.

2. work directly from the r3d. the r3d´s can be played back at 1:1 1:2 1:4 1:6 1:8 and so on resolutions. So if your discs and graphic pipe is not fast enough for full debayer full resolution playback then you just click down to 1:2 and see how that works or 1:4 etc.. then you edit and when you are done you swap back to 1:1 and render your timeline to 4k if thats your delivery res. So basically full 4k playback is not really needed.
 
Don't shoot 2k, 4k ain't nothin to be scared of my friend, I edit 6k dragon raw files on my laptop in Adobe
 
RED One automatically creates proxy (low-res) files when you shoot. You can edit with those and then "relink" to the full-rez 4K files. Or you can edit the full-fez files in Premiere by reducing the playback rez. Your package looks pretty complete…but you might want to see if you can find an R1 SSD side module…the SSD recording media will be more reliable than either the CF cards or the RED Drive that is with your camera.
 
Thanks again guy my last question i been looking at some videos canon 5d mark 3 vs red mx and claim is that 5d raw are better then mx and by looking at the video i can see that 5d raw are sharper and more clean and have less noise and another claim is that black magic 4k is better then red mx. I am thinking if those cameras are adding sharpeners in the camera or doing something similar

Any thoughts?
Thanks

black magic vs red https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrNi4G07MAI

5dmark 3 vs red https://vimeo.com/77719173#comment_12947814
 
Dino Jakovic said:
Thanks again guy my last question i been looking at some videos canon 5d mark 3 vs red mx and claim is that 5d raw are better then mx and by looking at the video i can see that 5d raw are sharper and more clean and have less noise and another claim is that black magic 4k is better then red mx. I am thinking if those cameras are adding sharpeners in the camera or doing something similar

Any thoughts?
Thanks

black magic vs red https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrNi4G07MAI

5dmark 3 vs red https://vimeo.com/77719173#comment_12947814
Click to expand...

I shot with all of them. The black magic is a pretty nice camera, I really like it. Small form factor uncompressed raw etc. Also a hacked 5D provides pretty good result, has a large sensor and even smaller form factor. But the MX is far more versatile, PL and Canon and Nikon mount, higher framerates and to me a much more appealing image. And yes the RED image is soft, due to the olpf that pretty much eliminate all risks of moare, something the two other cameras has issues with. So RED is built to be used together with post sharpening where as the other to has problem with in camera over sharp/moare.

And for the given price I think the setup is a bargain. It´s big yes, and a bit heavy yes. But then on the other hand I find heavy big cameras to look better hand held, small cameras tend to need a setup with counter weights etc to not look like iphone footage. And for alot of occasions I find the epic, scarlet and BM4k to be too small and having to little room for connectors etc. And rigged up that MX is a very nice B-Cam to anyone that shoots and works with r3d´s.

Edit: Also all those accessories is pretty much worth the price alone, the screens, batteries and lot of the other stuff can be used with epics and scarlets and so on. So if you decide to update the camera further on it´s still money quite well spent I think.
 
I think you'd be better off to find a used Scarlet MX body, R1 produces a great image, but you probably wont last long before you regret buying such a heavy camera. As for the 5D3, i would pass on that as well. Find a cheap scarlet body on here for 3-$4,000, then build the rest of the camera slowly.
 
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