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RED Monstro 645 Speed Booster Experiment

Phil Holland

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Cine Gear is literally around the corner and I have a few things I've been up to that I've wanted to share.

First, an experiment.

Back in January of 2016 before filming Forged I got a bit curious about the possibilities of the RED Weapon Dragon 8K VV sensor, as in what can be done with it from a creative perspective.

phfx_REDmonstroExpanderExp_0017.jpg



In my mind VistaVision to me is possibly the most versatile motion picture format in the industry. It's a large format and with that comes all sorts of interesting things (more on that soon) and amazing glass options, especially these days.

However, it's been clear to see that various filmmakers are exploring large format cinematography for their projects more and more. VistaVision, 65mm 5-perf, the Alexa65, stitching cameras, and attempting to go full on 15-perf 70mm. Even shooting 8K Helium is actually S35+ if you explore the realm of 8K FF.

phfx_REDmonstroExpanderExp_0006.jpg



I'm certainly one of the curious as well. I have a background with large format motion picture film and shooting on 8K VV during 2016 and 2017 has been wonderful. In many ways eye opening and life changing.

But, the question is there from January 2016 nagging. What if we could get "more" out of it.


Which led to an interesting collaborative project with Duclos Lenses.

The short story on the experiment. This involves the RED Weapon Dragon 8K VV, focal reducers, rapid prototyping, and medium format lenses.

The combination of which produces a RED Digital Cinema Camera that can utilize the coverage of 645 Medium Format Lenses.

phfx_red8KVVto65mmExpanderExperiment.jpg



Consider this. A 35mm prime on Super 35mm film compared to this "Monstro 645 Experimental" format would have the effective HFOV of a 15mm prime lens.

phfx_REDmonstroExpanderExp_0007.jpg


And a 55mm prime becomes a rather wide angle lens, as seen above.


So I've been running around town in the downtime between NAB and Cine Gear while finishing up some projects (and moving! still!) filming whenever and whatever I can with various medium format glass.

phfx_bellycam3pointoh.jpg


It's been fascinating having a very large format digital cinema camera that I can sling around my neck. This is my Bellycam 3.0 setup, which I would love to use more really. I shoot mostly on support of somesort, but I do like the candid qualities of this rig and it certainly has that waist level finder appeal from medium format still cameras.

phfx_REDmonstroExpanderExp_0013.jpg


phfx_REDmonstroExpanderExp_0014.jpg



There's going to be a light process of refinement on the expander via Duclos Lenses. Newly designed optics, better than what's seen here and a bit of exploration in terms of mounting glass.

This would be considered an speed booster and you do indeed gain about 1 stop of light. Adding optics into the chain will do a few things. In this case with our current prototype base element it enhances barrel distortion and of course adding any optics into the image chain will slightly degrade the image. Interestingly fighting back against that by stopping the lens down 1 stop helps loads.

phfx_REDmonstroExpanderExp_0012.jpg



This concept holds potential for both of RED's 8K offerings it would play nice with FF35 and VistaVision lenses to Helium S35+ would benefit as well for those interested in exploring all of this. For those who are fortunate enough to have a Dragon 8K VV and have medium format glass that they want to see "more of", this is indeed a wonderful option.

phfx_REDmonstroExpanderExp_0010.jpg



I'll likely be updating this from time to time, because this project/experiment will surely continue as developments are made.

Mostly just wanted to share something a bit different.

Big thanks to Duclos Lenses for undertaking another "weird Phil lens thing".

All images above were various 645 medium format lenses and colored via philmColor, more or that last bit real soon.
 
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Looks great, Phil! Maybe I should just quit everything I'm working on and go hang out with you, doing all these fun "weird Phil lens things."
 
Cooool, thanks for keeping us philled in.
 
Phil, Love Love Love your experiments and your well considered words....

Really appreciate it. See you tomorrow night...

Cheers,

Peter
 
Imagine if Duclos could add an Anamorphic 2x element into this Medium Format speed booster? Eh????

Already as is, Im picturing old Hassy, Mamiya and Pentax glass flying off shelves...
 
So if I understand that correctly you are putting a positive element behind a medium format glass as a focal reducer? It's not that simple Phil- just talk to Brian...takes a LOT more than that...
 
How wide would a Helium go? Would be interesting to se this in your chart Phil. Also Im guessing you have to put the adapter directly on the camera. You cant have any pl or canon mount before it. right?
 
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Thanks guys. This is an interesting experiment really and there will be lots of ongoing tests and info as it shapes into proper form.


So if I understand that correctly you are putting a positive element behind a medium format glass as a focal reducer? It's not that simple Phil- just talk to Brian...takes a LOT more than that...

Nope.


Looks great, Phil! Maybe I should just quit everything I'm working on and go hang out with you, doing all these fun "weird Phil lens things."

Heh. One day. But then we'll get nothing done.

Viva la I9 :)


How wide would a Helium go? Would be interesting to se this in your chart Phil. Also Im guessing you have to put the adapter directly on the camera. You cant have any pl or canon mount before it. right?

Think of it this way, VistaVision would become 645. S35+ would become FF35. Can't say much else about it at the moment. Especially due to two main bits. I'll be shooting more with the prototype however in the meantime.
 
Think of it this way, VistaVision would become 645. S35+ would become FF35. Can't say much else about it at the moment. Especially due to two main bits. I'll be shooting more with the prototype however in the meantime.
The VV doesn't "become " 645 or the Helium VV. The lens "becomes" another lens when you add the focal reducer to it. All the laws of physics including perspective compression still apply.
Properly designed focal reducer also improves the IQ as it shrinks the image as opposed to tele converter that degrades the image because it is enlarging it...
 
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The VV doesn't "become " 645 or the Helium VV. The lens "becomes" another lens when you add the focal reducer to it. All the laws of physics including perspective compression still apply.
Properly designed focal reducer also improves the IQ as it shrinks the image as opposed to tele converter that degrades the image because it is enlarging it...

It provides the effect of a larger image plane.

This is not a tele converter.
 
Yes it is the opposite of tele converter- that's what I was trying to convey. It is always preferred to use the lens designed for the format. Speed booster is just a converter with its advantages and pitfalls. It provides flexibility when needed makes lenses wider, faster and sometimes even sharper (God knows we always need it) hence its appeal. Whenever possible- the lens properly designed for the corresponding sensor format should always be the first choice. Unless special effect other than best image quality is desired. Such as red hot (blue actually ;-) anamorphic flares for example.
The speed booster does not retain the large format perspective compression on smaller sensors. The lens simply turns into a wider lens.
 
Care to elaborate?

I thought perspective compression was independent from focal length/format and entirely based upon subject-to-camera distance.
I though so too...until I saw a test where they were zooming and changing the OD. I did not save it at the time and it has come up so many times since then....
Come to think of it- it does...
 
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