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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED MINI MAG , MINI MAG SIDE MODULE and MINI MAG STATION now shipping.

Aren't REDmags proprietary like SxS or P2? Meaning RED dictates what goes in them, not the laptop industry?

Conversely, does this mean regular 256 Mags are going to be ~$1225? They're slower, bigger, older tech, which means cheaper, right? It's a tough call; try to get an abundance of cheaper/older mags or go for speed... Something tells me Scarlet-MX won't see any benefits of the mini-mags (other than dump speed, which is limited by storage array anyway.)
 
jacob.schwarz said:
Jared, Phil, or Bret are the record times for 6k and compression rates up somewhere?
Click to expand...

Yes sir. Although I'll have to update this pronto with the Mini Mag info, it was a bit of a surprise to me!

Phil Holland said:
Red Dragon Record Times 24fps 256GB REDMAG



* note - Record times are for a stock 256GB REDMAG and don't reflect the additional REDCODE Compression Ratios available on the 512GB REDMAG and other high speed media cards.
Click to expand...
 
Mike P. said:
Aren't REDmags proprietary like SxS or P2? Meaning RED dictates what goes in them, not the laptop industry?

Conversely, does this mean regular 256 Mags are going to be ~$1225? They're slower, bigger, older tech, which means cheaper, right? It's a tough call; try to get an abundance of cheaper/older mags or go for speed... Something tells me Scarlet-MX won't see any benefits of the mini-mags (other than dump speed, which is limited by storage array anyway.)
Click to expand...

If the controller chips only control a certain number of NAND modules, and the NAND modules are only a certain size, then Red would be dictating the creation of a mostly empty Redmag, not to mention larger yet to be announced modules which would be more cumbersome.

wCsltZ8.jpg


Also, a big portion in the reduction in the price of SSDs is coming from switching to newer technologies. Since Red isn't reinventing the old ones, they probably won't be costing less to make.
 
Mike P. said:
Aren't REDmags proprietary like SxS or P2? Meaning RED dictates what goes in them, not the laptop industry?

Conversely, does this mean regular 256 Mags are going to be ~$1225? They're slower, bigger, older tech, which means cheaper, right? It's a tough call; try to get an abundance of cheaper/older mags or go for speed... Something tells me Scarlet-MX won't see any benefits of the mini-mags (other than dump speed, which is limited by storage array anyway.)
Click to expand...

Heh heh it would be nice to be able to dictate to the handful of memory manufactures in the world the exact layout and chip size and process and format we want but that is a reality that is not going to happen unless we either sold 100s of millions of cameras or if we charged you $100,000 per mag.

You are right, We do have custom firmware because of the way we write to the cards... but the actual silicon is not something we control... because it doesn't make sense to invest the money to do so, as that dramatic increase in cost would fall on you guys.

And for the same reason, we do not get monthly commodity pricing on memory. We need to make large orders to be able to get the qty needed to even be able to talk to memory manufactures about getting us special runs for extra the testing and firmware we require. So the price it costs us for the 256gb large cards today is the same as we paid last year on memory because thats when we purchased and inventoried them... and remember, these cards are only a few years old, not far from the 18 month normal cycle. If we do get a break in pricing because we sell out of inventory and have the opportunity to renegotiate pricing for a replacement order, then you guys see that break as you have seen in the past.

Hope the explains things...
 
Mike P. said:
Aren't REDmags proprietary like SxS or P2? Meaning RED dictates what goes in them, not the laptop industry?

Conversely, does this mean regular 256 Mags are going to be ~$1225? They're slower, bigger, older tech, which means cheaper, right? It's a tough call; try to get an abundance of cheaper/older mags or go for speed... Something tells me Scarlet-MX won't see any benefits of the mini-mags (other than dump speed, which is limited by storage array anyway.)
Click to expand...

The full size mags certainly contain off-the-shelf standard laptop SSD modules, with standard SATA connectors - and a small physical adapter module which converts the standard SATA connector to Red's tougher proprietary high duty cycle connector.

The bit that matters, the secret sauce, is that the off-the-shelf SSD modules have custom Red firmware to implement the real-time 100% sustained write performance required to be usable as reliable digital cinema storage. That's the truly unique and critical component of a Redmag; the firmware that reprograms the SSD controller. Everything else is off-the-shelf, standard laptop components as Jarred said earlier.

EDIT Jarred beat me to the punch and said it better :-)

Mike
 
Michael Jarvis said:
+1 would love to get a yay or nay.
Click to expand...

If this was just a card issue then the regular Redmags would have been able to do it. It doesn't make sense that it was the card that was limiting the Scarlets frame rates.
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Interesting. Two points:

1. Any reason not to put the guts of the new 512GB mag into a standard Redmag shell? So we can get the benefit of much better memory pricing without having to buy a new side module or change anything else about our setups? $2450 vs. $3900 is a hell of a difference.

2. There HAS to be an adapter to use the new mags in the old side modules and docking stations, right??

Good that there's new product and better pricing, but I'm struggling mightily to understand the change in form factor. Of any and all gripes people might have had with Redmags, 'physical size' was NOT one of them!

I'm sorry but it does look a bit like change for changes sake, absent a cogent explanation. It breaks compatibility and you do NOT do that without a very good reason.

Mike
Click to expand...

I have to agree with this. I mean I understand getting smaller.

Maybe RED should offer a trade-in program? Like old SSD module for half off the new one? Why not just stick them in the same size shell and lower the price rather than making everyone replace their entire media collection (Side SSD/Mags/Station) to take advantage of the lower prices?

I say all this while I do think it's pretty cool. Are prices on the regular Red Mag's going to end up being cheaper then the mini's now? Or does that tech still cost more?

Edit: Sorry read the answer after posting.
 
Last edited:
Again...a price adjustment for existing RED MAGS would be lovely, since it's not a compelling case to buy the RED MAGS over the MINI-RED MAGS yet it's not as simple as just dumping all the investment in our existing cards, readers, and SSD. That's a sizable purchase just to cross-grade. And even then it now means I can't share on two camera shoots with the mixed standard.
 
Brent@RED said:
Jeffrey, pretty sure all your points are addressed in previous posts : )
Click to expand...
I saw that. Thanks Brent.

I should read the whole thread before posting. Can't say i'm excited about spending more money but I can see why the move would be made.

Something I didn't see an answer for was if prices to current SSD's would come down?
 
Isaac and Jeffrey, see post #65 of this thread:

Jarred Land said:
And for the same reason, we do not get monthly commodity pricing on memory. We need to make large orders to be able to get the qty needed to even be able to talk to memory manufactures about getting us special runs for extra the testing and firmware we require. So the price it costs us for the 256gb large cards today is the same as we paid last year on memory because thats when we purchased and inventoried them... and remember, these cards are only a few years old, not far from the 18 month normal cycle. If we do get a break in pricing because we sell out of inventory and have the opportunity to renegotiate pricing for a replacement order, then you guys see that break as you have seen in the past.
Click to expand...
 
Great move forward.

So, instead of asking for lower prices on bigMAGs, i just want to say thank you for making the lower prices on miniMAGs and risking exactly those questions. Other companies would have found different "solutions", we all can imagine that, miniMAGs would be way more expensive because they are newer and better. But you guys decided to go another route. And on top of that there comes Jarred and explains why things are that way....

This just one reason why i love RED. Thanks.

I'm really tempted to upgrade my Scarlet, but there are more things on my wishlist. ;)
 
Jarred Land said:
Heh heh it would be nice to be able to dictate to the handful of memory manufactures in the world the exact layout and chip size and process and format we want but that is a reality that is not going to happen unless we either sold 100s of millions of cameras or if we charged you $100,000 per mag.

You are right, We do have custom firmware because of the way we write to the cards... but the actual silicon is not something we control... because it doesn't make sense to invest the money to do so, as that dramatic increase in cost would fall on you guys.

And for the same reason, we do not get monthly commodity pricing on memory. We need to make large orders to be able to get the qty needed to even be able to talk to memory manufactures about getting us special runs for extra the testing and firmware we require. So the price it costs us for the 256gb large cards today is the same as we paid last year on memory because thats when we purchased and inventoried them... and remember, these cards are only a few years old, not far from the 18 month normal cycle. If we do get a break in pricing because we sell out of inventory and have the opportunity to renegotiate pricing for a replacement order, then you guys see that break as you have seen in the past.

Hope the explains things...
Click to expand...

Clear as crystal. Thanks!
 
Isaac Marchionna said:
Disappointing, but here's hoping everyone jumping ship to the mini-mags will want to offload their big mags for a discount.

JACKAL MODE ENGAGED!
Click to expand...

Bargains cropping up already ;)
 
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