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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED lenses - why not T stop

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We have been digging into the history of making all RED lenses t-stops instead of f-stops. I have discovered that the quote we got for t-stop calibration initially was just too much for us to sell our lenses at the prices we had targeted. We have done some more work on this and think we can accomplish the calibration for a better price. I'm not sure exactly what that means in terms of selling price at this moment, but we are committed to giving it our best effort.

Jim
 
PS

PS

And at the same price that has been announced. Without changes at all. Stable prices is a sign of maturity.

Edit
Besides, we have our own financial commitments that we cannot change whenever a new thread is open.
 
I'd love calibrated lenses, and would be happy to pay more for them.

If I may speculate on the price issue, I'm guessing that the extra cost would be in manufacturing to ensure that each lens had exactly the same transmission characteristics. Currently the lenses are extremely cheap - to manufacture them at that price point, I'm thinking it's possible that one set of lenses wouldn't exactly match another set, hence no "T" stops without having to spend more.

Could be talking through my hat there though.
 
We'll see what we can do...

Jim
 
Jannard said:
We'll see what we can do...

Jim
Click to expand...

Thank you. I'm glad that my speculation concerning an OEM limitation where wrong!!!

Personally I agree with those who said: if for T-stops the price has to be somehow higher, I will be happy to change my order to the higher-priced T-stops version.
 
me not.. since i have no more money to spend..
 
Great news. T-stops will not only add value but will help keep the re-sale value way up on the lenses. For those complaining about the price being too high look at it as a wise investment. There is a reason people can get close to the same amount or even higher then what they paid for lenses they purchased 25 or more years ago and proffesional glass and calibrated T-stops have a bunch to do with it. Some here tend to always be looking for the cheap option which in my opinion ends up with products that don't work as well, tend to need repair sooner and more often, don't give you the ability to rent for more $ and are worth much less when you decide to sell them.

Simply T-stops will make digital and film shooting easier and keep the value of your lenses higher throughout there life.
 
I'm all for it... Even if it costs more, understandable due to the testing and calibration. If the lenses can still be calibrated and marked with T-stops, keeping in line with "RED pricing", I'm sure we'll all still be happy. Because, I'm still excited over a set of 5 primes for $20-30K vs. a single Cooke or Zeiss prime for $20-30K.
 
I see that Dalsa is planning to launch their own set of anamorphic lenses for their 4k camera lines. I'd like to see Red do the same. I love the look of the films shot in scope.

K Mayry
 
I have only just caught up with this thread and felt that I would like to add to the debate.

I don't have a background in cinematography; I make self funded movies using the best cameras and equipment I can afford to buy because I love the art of film making. I don't like to hire anything unless I have to because of the high costs. I ordered a red camera because of the increased quality it will give me and because of it's low price. Jim is giving us a movie making system that is unparalleled in quality for the money. He has carried out his pricing/quality philosophy right through the range of accessories and the lenses. I for one was amazed at a set of 5 cine prime lenses for under $20,000and as soon as I had aquired the camera intend to buy this set. But after reading this thread and the heated discussion on the pros and cons of Fstops versus Tstops I became a bit dispondent that pressure is being applied to Jim to go against a decision he had made on the price point of going with the Fstops.

Now I have read all the posts of this thread and accept that professional cine lenses have Tstops and through David Mullens excellent explanation of the reasons why the difference and a preference for the Tstops in the professional world of movie making are so important. As I see it, without getting emotional, there are two camps here; the cinematographers who are used to working with with budgets that permit hiring cameras and lenses; and cinematographers who shoot with their own cameras and lenses.

When you have large budgets that allow you to hire the best equipment going it's easy to say I want this and that and get it. However, when you are shooting on your own equipment and you have a very limited budget sometimes coming out of your own pocket a few hundred dollars here and there can make hell of a difference to what you can afford. It's all right for people to say I don't mind paying upto $30,000 for a set of Red primes but to a lot of hopeful Red owners that extra $10,000 is going to make the lenses too expensive an option for them and I include myself in that.

I don't know how much of an increase the prime set would have to be raised to accomodate the wishes of those who want the Tstops but I am sure if it had only been only a few hundred dollars on the price of the package I am sure that we wouldn't be debating this issue now.
It would be so sad to see a lot of Red owners have to go to 35mm still primes because this issue puts the price of the Red primes out of their price range. I am not saying that still lenses are inferior in any way but the chance of owning a set of Red primes especially matched to the Red camera is a dream come true.

Jim has given us indies, with limited budgets, a chance to produce our projects with top quality equipment never dreamt of before, and I thank him for that; but it would be such a shame to see him have to change tack mid-stream.
 
It's probably premature to assume Jim is "changing tack." He's responding to a valid concern of his customers, which is a testament to Red's desire to offer the best products possible at the best price. Since he is still vetting this out, it's safe to say he won't make any rash decision. Maybe he'll offer both options, an F Stop set at 20K and a T Stop set at a slightly higher, TBD price. Or maybe he'll figure out a way to offer a set marked with both at an acceptable point in between, or all of the above. I'm just happy he is taking it seriously and listening to his customers, a privilege we have come to expect with RED (and probably take for granted). I don't think he will let us down.
 
David Cubbage said:
It's all right for people to say I don't mind paying upto $30,000 for a set of Red primes but to a lot of hopeful Red owners that extra $10,000 is going to make the lenses too expensive an option for them and I include myself in that.
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Not sure where you figure of $10,000 extra for T-stops as I would see that as a crazy amount. Someone mentioned in this thread that they know of a company that you can send your lenses to and have them calibrate them into T-stops for $600 a lense and that would by far be the most expensive way to have it done. IMHO I would be highly suprised if it raised the cost of the lenses by $150 a lense to have them factory T-stop calibrated and for the value they would go up in re-sale and the ease of being able to use multi cameras or do effects shots and re-shoots it would be foolish not to have them.

You mentioned David that you were suprised by the debate and did not think that if T-stops would only have been a few hundred a lense that RED would have planned on T-stops from the begining. The thing is because a lot of industry profesionals know that it would be a nominal increase in price to have T-stops implemented in the factory is the very reason why so many spoke up about it.

Trust me when I say that if you spend the little extra for T-stops you will be very happy. Not only because of T-stop advantages but because your lenses will be a lot more valuable upon re-sale.



Jim has given us indies, with limited budgets, a chance to produce our projects with top quality equipment never dreamt of before, and I thank him for that; but it would be such a shame to see him have to change tack mid-stream.
Click to expand...

This whole project has been about changing tack mid-stream. It is a big part of the reason so many are excited about this company. IMHO this camera would not be half of what it is without Jims openess to input and change from so many of the people here and others Jim is in contact with.
 
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