RED KOMODO my thought :)

[luigivaltulini]

OOhhh dear RED ... I feel Happy. Really Happy.
This little one being so small, light and performing ...
I go straight to the point and try to express myself at best in English.
Many of you think and are sure that this camera will be the second camera on the SET !!!
Well I don't think so even for a second, this camera can be transformed as you wish in a short time from the naked body in your hand with a lens to future cages with all the optical bench and v-mount and various accessories ..
And if RED in the next few months manages to make a viewfinder, it would be the best.
Someone will wring their noses at this statement, but I assure you that the image that comes out of this thing is so damn beautiful and hot that anyone will like it, ok it's only 50fps at 4k but for me now that's enough and advances for most of the works, what makes the difference is definitely the global shutter.
THE DR excellent, REd did a great job thinking about the type of sensor it is, and to make you understand I have included some shots with ALexa mini Lf and soon I will use it on a set together, on Thursday I have some tests and I will post them with different light situations.

I leave you with my representation of the DR and I apologize but I forgot to insert the plastic on the left to better separate the stops, but in any case I did not see any defects.

I also leave you some shots made today for curiosity Komodo and ALexa mini Lf in RAw and you can play with them.

In the next few days I will add more and if someone wants I can try to do other tests


Komodo vs ALexa mini Lf ( 6 stop Diaf +candle test ):
http://vpn.cine5k.red/s/y8LBg32PwFBZjMN

Komodo vs ALexa mini LF 2
http://vpn.cine5k.red/s/NtaMKzm6TXbN2q5

Monstro Komodo low light Link:
http://vpn.cine5k.red/s/bzPjjTbojCorqkK

DR:
http://vpn.cine5k.red/s/wnZYg6bypqeNDPf

[/url]LOGKOMODO310JPG by luigi valtulini, su Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]709KOMODO by luigi valtulini, su Flickr[/IMG]

 

[rand thompson]

Thanks for the Tests Luigi!

 

[Kwan Khan]

Nice, and thanks

 

[rand thompson]

Luigi,


Arri sample with Highlights recovered against Red Komodo. I still see Magenta and Blue pop up in the "Neutral" colors of the Komodo when match almost identically against the Arri Alexa Mini LF.


Arri Alexa Mini LF

Red Komodo

 

[Andi Loor]

There is more blue in the Alexa compared to the komodo image. This is most visible in the shadow part of the "white" pillar/wall on the very right lower part of the image. But you can also see it clearly in the vases behind the couch. The Komodo image is generally warmer. I don't understand where you see blue and magenta in the Komodo image? The Arri image is also generally sharper, can be seen especially in the strings of the hanging chair and the heater on the wall behind, but also in the details of the frame. The lower end is darker in the Komodo image if looking at the grey piece of cloth on the couch and the shadow of the orange cushion. From the discussions here I would say that Komodo is more "film" and Arri more "video" if you understand what I mean. In the end it naturally comes down to preferences, and what the reasons are for these differences is naturally impossible to say. I'm not sure any conclusions really can be made from just by comparing two images rather it has to be made from experience after a long time of use. The highlight difference leaves me with the question why there is such a difference?

 

[J. Orlandi]

Coming from me who has owned and shot a bunch of Alexa XT stuff, the Komodo holds it’s own. The Alexas color science is quicker / easier to grade I feel. But it’s a learning curve and once I’ve learned what works and what doesn’t with Komodo, I start seeing great results.

From what little I’ve been able to shoot with this damn covid life, I’ve been able to see that dynamic range is excellent and highlights blow very naturally and do have that “film blown” look rather than video clipping.

The grain structure is very tight, and balancing for smooth clean blacks is a little different from Arri. Arri handles ISOs differently, and people need to understand that too. ISO 1280 on the Alexa is brighter than Any RED camera, it’s what I first noticed. But it’s about all the different internal settings including ipp2, contrast settings, ect.

Overall I feel the Komodo is A cam worthy for sure and I don’t feel limited at all by it. In fact I feel less restricted shooting with the Komodo than the Alexa.

 

[rand thompson]

Andi Loor,

You're looking at everything but the right things. I have also graded Arri Alexa footage next to other Red Cameras. They both have different Color Science and I would never expect them to ever look exactly the same. The blue and magenta I am referring to are the blue in the sofa and the magenta in the grey cloth. The sofa, from my previous experience of grading this same scene from Luigi before is a dark grey and that grey cloth should be light grey , it looks more Magenta in the Komodo.

If you actually tried grading the two similarly exposed Komodo and Alexa Mini LF scenes provided by Luigi you would see what I meant. Trying to get them to match the grays in the Alexa mini Lf completely alters the two images similarly completely.

 

[Andi Loor]

Andi Loor,

You're looking at everything but the right things. I have also graded Arri Alexa footage next to other Red Cameras. They both have different Color Science and I would never expect them to ever look exactly the same. The blue and magenta I am referring to are the blue in the sofa and the magenta in the grey cloth. The sofa, from my previous experience of grading this same scene from Luigi before is a dark grey and that grey cloth should be light grey , it looks more Magenta in the Komodo.

If you actually tried grading the two similarly exposed Komodo and Alexa Mini LF scenes provided by Luigi you would see what I meant. Trying to get them to match the grays in the Alexa mini Lf completely alters the two images similarly completely.

Now I understand what you mean.

 

[rand thompson]

Andi,


Here is the way the original scenes before grading looked, the Arri at 4300K and the Komodo at 5600K

Arri Alexa Mini LF

Red Komodo

Here are both before grading at 4300K

Arri Alexa Mini LF

Red Komodo

 

[Andi Loor]

Here the magenta is very clearly visible in the Komodo image while the Arri image has much more green. Thank you for showing

 

[rand thompson]

No Problem Andi. To Me the Arri looks more blue.

 

[Andi Loor]

It may naturally have to do with me just watching on an ordinary laptop. The green is especially obvious on the clock as well as the wall beneath it.

 

[rand thompson]

The problem, atleast in this case, was that the upper Mid Reds and Blues were elevated in relation to the greens.

To fix that, just bring down the Reds and Blues in relation to the Greens

 

[Björn Benckert]

Its not really like they are miles appart. With a bit of balancing Komodo looks like Alexa or Alexa looks like Komodo. Did not apply any sharpening here, and out of the gate the Alexa looks slightly more crisp, like the Komodo has a stronger olpf.

https://vimeo.com/446472497

The matching could be done more accurate for sure but this was just one node added and no qualifiers after the rec709 conversion trough dxl2 + ipp2 medium soft rec 709 lut provided by red.

I think anyone colonist should be able to get a perfect match within minutes, especially if you shoot a chart.

 

[rand thompson]

Bjorn,


But you used the Panavision DXL2 lut to do it. That Lut works good some of the time with the Red Cameras but I stop using it because every now and then the colors would bite you in the ass.


BTW,

I still see magenta in the sofa and in her dress in your example in relation to the blue in the Arri example.

Arri Alexa Mini LF

Red komodo

 

[Chris McKechnie]

Komodo really skews red...and I think it’s because they are trying to combat the “greenish” tiny that has plagued red for so many years. I think they took it too far though. I think Komodo is still based off a helium wafer, which is why the DR is so close in the tests I’ve seen comparing the cams. Helium was not a great sensor IMO, and I think they tried to salvage the sensor tech and repurpose it into Komodo - while making some major tweaks and adjustments to the imaging pipeline. Just speculating of course. Komodo looks to be a solid cam for sure, and RED is surely gonna sell a heck of a lot of them. Kudos to RED for addressing a need and staying “active” in this ever changing market.

 

[rand thompson]

Chris,


Yeah, I can more than understand trying to combat the green issue that was experienced at some times in previous cameras, but even then it was just a Hue problem that I found could be easily fixed in "most" cases.

 

[Andrew Reese]

Arri images always seem to have pronounced and very rich greens to my eyes which is something I actually always thought makes them look more pleasing kind of like how Leica-R lenses render images (i.e. pronounced yellows/greens) . Historically with green tint out of RED cameras (i.e. Helium) maybe this is RED's way of dialing back the green and attempting to make Komodo more neutral as magenta offsets green tint. I noticed a lot of magenta as well recently from Komodo on the comparison between Helium, Gemini, and Komodo on Tim Daust's recent Youtube comparison post as well. It seems to show up in the shadows and highlights on grey/white areas of the image making grey's feel colder/dirtier like there is some underlying blue and whites/highlights have a pinkish purple hue at times.

 

[David Rasberry]

Komodo really skews red...and I think it’s because they are trying to combat the “greenish” tiny that has plagued red for so many years. I think they took it too far though. I think Komodo is still based off a helium wafer, which is why the DR is so close in the tests I’ve seen comparing the cams. Helium was not a great sensor IMO, and I think they tried to salvage the sensor tech and repurpose it into Komodo - while making some major tweaks and adjustments to the imaging pipeline. Just speculating of course. Komodo looks to be a solid cam for sure, and RED is surely gonna sell a heck of a lot of them. Kudos to RED for addressing a need and staying “active” in this ever changing market.

This could simply be the effect of a skin tone balanced OLPF.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

[...]I think Komodo is still based off a helium wafer, which is why the DR is so close in the tests I’ve seen comparing the cams. Helium was not a great sensor IMO, and I think they tried to salvage the sensor tech and repurpose it into Komodo - while making some major tweaks and adjustments to the imaging pipeline. Just speculating of course.[...]

Chris, the pixel pitch of the Helium is 3.65 micron and it implements a scanning CMOS sensor readout. Komodo pixel pitch is 4.4 micron and it implements a global shutter readout. Those two facts alone mean that there is absolutely no wafer-level sharing beyond both using silicon as the base wafer material. Of course RED has some fundamental theories that perhaps pervade their design, but the idea that Komodo is a re-branded and tweaked Helium? In the words of a great theoretical physicist, "It's not right. It's not even wrong."