RED - examples of natural, "filmic" color?

[David Mullen ASC]

I just saw a 35mm print of Tsui Hark's "Detective Dee and the Mystery of the Phantom Flame" and it had very nice colors -- I didn't guess it was a Red-shot movie until a scene where they point to clouds passing in front of the sun and the sun had a pale dark circle from the sensor protection function... then I thought "is this a Red movie?", which the internet confirmed.

Despite what a few others have said, I think "Pirates of the Caribbean 4" looked very good, with nice skintones in day scenes that didn't have a color tone compared to fire or moonlit scenes. I saw that one digitally projected though.

 

[David Rasberry]

I think previous seasons were shot in Super-16.

My bad, you are right. Confused it with another show.

Makes it all the more relevant.

 

[Filip Orlandic]

I've been always impressed with the skin tones and the filmic look which is easy to achive in post-production with RED cameras.

Graded and shot by myself on RED ONE M sensor in 2009.

 

[Martin Jäger]

...i allways said it's kinda impossible to grade 5D/7D/60D material in a decent way - i was misstaken.
given that fact, i'm sure you can grade RED material into pretty much anything imaginable.

 

[Matthias Martin]

This question is one that I had for a long time now. And frankly, the most jawdropping RED images containing natural skin i know of are still the Milk Girls. Weird, huh?
But i would suggest "Splinterheads" as a shot on RED movie with natural skin tones, but that was shot on the original Mysterium Sensor i think.
But i don't know of a movie with a honeydrippingly beautiful grade such as this one here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLNyiwRlVXA. Suggestions?
If the future of cinema is RED, i would love to be assured (and possibly shown) that such looks will still be achievable.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Milk Girls had the same early colour science that people "complain" about, which I think is saying something.... (and certainly proves Sanjin's comment wrong.) Splinterheads does indeed look great, as does Leaves of Green.

Graeme

 

[Deanan]

Milk Girls had the same early colour science that people "complain" about, which I think is saying something.... (and certainly proves Sanjin's comment wrong.) Splinterheads does indeed look great, as does Leaves of Green.

Graeme

Social Network also.

 

[David Rasberry]

This question is one that I had for a long time now. And frankly, the most jawdropping RED images containing natural skin i know of are still the Milk Girls. Weird, huh?
But i would suggest "Splinterheads" as a shot on RED movie with natural skin tones, but that was shot on the original Mysterium Sensor i think.
But i don't know of a move with a honeydrippingly beautiful grade such as this one here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLNyiwRlVXA. Suggestions?
If the future of cinema is RED, i would love to be assured (and possibly shown) that such looks will still be achievable.

That trailer looks like RED M footage to me.

 

[Daniel Dávila]

For me, there's a single "RED" signature skin look, if you get a overall neutral face tone, the lips look violet-magenta, giving some sickness in the character... I've found myself tracking masks on mouths to correct this. I've seen it in many RED shows, including Pirates and even in a Spiderman trailer...

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Interesting thread, though I fear it's going to turn into one of those Red vs. Arri/Sony things, or digital vs. film. Still, very interested in reading replies to the original question.



Sanjin, we have disagreed in the past on a few things, but please don't take it personally: the rotary shutter module has been dismissed many many times by RED, and I don't think writing about that over and over and over again will change their plans. Obviously, Red doesn't believe that a film camera style shutter and ovf make sense for them, other companies disagree and believe there's a market for those features (and frankly, from what I'm seeing, there's a lot of people who can't wait to put their hand on those cameras, at least here).

Francesco,

I just wanted to say a fact that three recently announced digital cameras at IBC from the competition have, with the specs on a paper, native 14 stops of DR and a sort of mechanical shutter (Alexa Studio Pro, Sony F65 and Aaton Penelope Δ Delta).

Jim also replied on one now closed tread that RED is preparing something ready to replace mechanical shutter in a future releases.

RED Dragon sensor upgrade was already announced by RED at last NAB.

Maybe I'm loosing a patience and want to get all that right now!!!

Sanjin, you're wrong: "RED M and RED MX have both but on a different way sort of "skipping colors" issue that is now finally fixed with Epic" - there are no "skipping colours" - the colorimetry is matched between all three cameras and all three are capable of producing the same great skin tones. Epic is the least noisy of the three, but that won't get in the way of great colour on a well exposed shot. The colour "issue" you're talking about is purely a stylistic fashion that is very popular and coincides with RED camera popularity and is visible in film shots and shots with other digital cameras. In other words if you think the issue is "fixed" in Epic, then it never actually existed in the first place...

Graeme

Graeme,

I could be wrong, of course, but let's agree with one point that that Epic has much better colors than RED M and RED MX.

Why?

How could I know?

I'm on the other side of the curtain that means sitting in audience, watching and also like a RED user.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Lower noise on Epic - yes. Better colours no. Colorimetry is the same for M-X and Epic using the same chip. Sitting in the audience means you're watching the result of the entire process from lens through to screen. Sitting looking at the set, the R3D files and the finished production like Deanan and myself do gives us a better perspective. Most of what you see on screen (in terms of colour) is dictated by factors other than camera choice.

Graeme

 

[Miltos Pilalitos]

What RED needs is a colour science 3 that will further refine the look of the RED footage and also the complete eradication of RED COLOUR 1 and RED GAMMA 1 from both the REDCINE and the camera. Those two are responsible for all the nastiness I have seen coming from RED-MX or RED-M.

That was just my opinion of course.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Well Miltos, being raw it matters not what is set in camera. Although I prefer RG2, I've seen very good stuff on RG1 and RC1. RC1 & 2 share the same base colorimetry too, so if one is wrong, so is the other...

Graeme

 

[Martin Stevens]

I have seen MANY movies shot on FILM look horrible in the theatre and on Blu-ray because of the way
they were graded in post.

I am so sick-to-death of crushed blacks and teal/orange post tricks that I wish I was back in the Seventies sometimes.

RED footage has always looked superb in the right hands. Same with Film.

 

[M Most]

My bad, you are right. Confused it with another show.

Makes it all the more relevant.

Last season's episodes of Burn Notice (that is, the ones shot in 2010) were shot on Sony PDW-F800 XDCam. All seasons prior to that were on S16 film.

Having worked a bit with that show in the first 2 seasons, I would say that it still maintains many elements of the look that was developed for it by Roy Wagner in the first season - very saturated, very warm (some would say very red), "enhanced" reality. This was toned down a bit in later seasons that were shot by Bill Wages, but a lot of those elements remain. It has never been about a "realistic" look, but it is, well, somewhat unique. The story I got about Red on that show is that it was going to go to Alexa, but Jeffrey Donovan (star and a producer) directed the "prequel" movie about Bruce Campbell's character in Colombia that was shot on Red, liked it, and suggested it. They also hired Denny Hall as DP, who worked on "The Cleaner" and "Franklin and Bash," so there was likely some familiarity there.

 

[Miltos Pilalitos]

Well Miltos, being raw it matters not what is set in camera. Although I prefer RG2, I've seen very good stuff on RG1 and RC1. RC1 & 2 share the same base colorimetry too, so if one is wrong, so is the other...

Graeme

Yes but not everyone is colour literate in this business and if someone doesn't know what they are doing it is very difficult to end up with a nice grade originating from RC1/RG1.

Also, now that the Alexa is around I am always listening "Oh! Look how soft and filmic it looks compared to the RED". This drives me crazy! I always have to explain that "Yes, but the RED being RAW can also look like that if... blah blah blah"

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Alexa, if it looks "filmic" at all is due to the soft contrast filter it has built in (and adds to the softness), and the blue badge that says "Arri". When you do a blind test, or even a good, well controlled test RED doesn't look less filmic - it just doesn't look out-of-focus on the big screen. The REDs are a very neutral canvas to work with. I don't really think a camera should be anything but a neutral canvas to work from either...

Graeme

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Graeme its out of topic but i should ask..
with R1MX i shot test on 250 ISO then made it 800 ISO on RCX and it looks same which is shot on 800 ISO no difference..is this same with Epic?(didnt test it myself yet)

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Yes, ISO is just meta.

Graeme

 

[Deanan]

Also, now that the Alexa is around I am always listening "Oh! Look how soft and filmic it looks compared to the RED". This drives me crazy! I always have to explain that "Yes, but the RED being RAW can also look like that if... blah blah blah"

The same people that have argued that 35mm film has true 4k also argue that Alexa is great because it's soft like film. At the same time, I've heard the same people argue that 2k from Alexa is plenty.