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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Epic Noise Reduction test at ISO 12800

What OFX options?

Blair S. Paulsen said:
Neat Video has impressive bang for the buck and is compatible with a number of common tools. That said, I have to agree with Jake Blackstone that there are better options in the OFX universe that manage to kill 90% of the "noise" Neat does with less blurring. NR performance is a matrix of source material characteristics, target codec characteristics, processing precision, talent of the operator, personal taste, etc. so YMMV.

Cheers - #19
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jake blackstone said:
No expensive plug in is necessary. Just don't shoot ASA 12800. Or if you must, choose another camera, that is capable of shooting clean 4k images at those and higher ASA:)
As I said in the past, I find it ironic, that on the forum where people are so obsessed with 6K, pixel peeping and preserving every bit of power in RAW processing, would have no compunction degrading the image in post just to prove the point, that MX can shoot in low light and $99 plug in can help making it appear better...
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I'm talking 800ISO+ material, not as high as the OP's which is ridiculous for an Epic.

What OFX plugins do you recommend for Resolve? I'd like another good noise reduction plugin but for now Neat Video is my best option.
 
Will Keir said:
What OFX options?
Click to expand...

I'd take a look at Dark Energy. DVO Clarity was Jake's tout but AFAIK it requires a Nucoda host.

BTW, I prefaced my comments by noting the impressive price/performance of Neat Video - that wasn't intended as a slam. I just felt the discussion should include a note about some other options, whether they are expensive or limited to certain platforms, they are part of the NR landscape.

Cheers - #19
 
Keep me posted too. Would love a great NR solution.

Nick Fury said:
And...it is going to be more affordable, for a short while. If you are not in a rush, wait until tomorrow, for particulars, on Neat Video... Stay tuned...
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Dark Energy. Is that stand alone or part of our currently NLE options?

Blair S. Paulsen said:
I'd take a look at Dark Energy. DVO Clarity was Jake's tout but ASAIK it requires a Nucoda host.

BTW, I prefaced my comments by noting the impressive price/performance of Neat Video - that wasn't intended as a slam. I just felt the discussion should include a note about some other options, whether they are expensive or limited to certain platforms, they are part of the NR landscape.

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I'd take a look at Dark Energy. DVO Clarity was Jake's tout but ASAIK it requires a Nucoda host.

BTW, I prefaced my comments by noting the impressive price/performance of Neat Video - that wasn't intended as a slam. I just felt the discussion should include a note about some other options, whether they are expensive or limited to certain platforms, they are part of the NR landscape.

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...

Dark Energy is windows only... what other options for the mac?
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I heard second hand there was a Kickstarter campaign to fund porting Dark Energy to the Mac but they fell short.

Cheers - #19
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Dang, oh well, a license is $6,000 which puts it out of most peoples range.
 
jake blackstone said:
No expensive plug in is necessary. Just don't shoot ASA 12800. Or if you must, choose another camera, that is capable of shooting clean 4k images at those and higher ASA:)
As I said in the past, I find it ironic, that on the forum where people are so obsessed with 6K, pixel peeping and preserving every bit of power in RAW processing, would have no compunction degrading the image in post just to prove the point, that MX can shoot in low light and $99 plug in can help making it appear better...
Click to expand...

You are right! But when you unexpected need it, it is fine when there are solutions to save the shot.
Best Robert

New showreel on www.camlight.nl
 
jake blackstone said:
No expensive plug in is necessary. Just don't shoot ASA 12800. Or if you must, choose another camera, that is capable of shooting clean 4k images at those and higher ASA:)
As I said in the past, I find it ironic, that on the forum where people are so obsessed with 6K, pixel peeping and preserving every bit of power in RAW processing, would have no compunction degrading the image in post just to prove the point, that MX can shoot in low light and $99 plug in can help making it appear better...
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what you mean here? Of course 12800 is way too high, but in this test the 12800 material was shot at 2K which creates a bit too much artifacts. I haven't my camera available to me right now, but when I do I will show how a before and after shot is when shooting at 12800 and 5K, which is totally different. In most scenarios I would say that a "proper exposed 12800 image" would be quite usable in most productions after NR.

Thing is that there aren't any other cameras on the market that can shoot clean 4K images at the same level as Red. Haven't tried the F65 in low light though, it might perform better and the Sony A7s is a monster in low light, but it fails in every other aspect as a professional film camera. Keep in mind that I shot this myself, handheld among a lot of people, it was clearly the most "run n gun" you can do with the Red. I cannot see a larger camera being able to do this and be handled in this way.

With that said, what became clear to me by doing this test is that whenever you are loosing light at the end of a days shoot, people panic because they get noisy images when pushing to 3200, but you could easily go to 6400 and NR images to match 800 images. In some cases you can also go up to 12800 and still retain 4K detail in the images. I think this is a very positive thing because Red isn't a low light camera, but with some clever NR you are safe most of the time.

And the camera is more than it's sensor, so it's not really that easy to just say "shoot with another camera", what other camera? And also, I don't know what you mean by degrading the footage in post, this is improving the image not degrading it. Or is it that you might like the 6400 - 12800 ISO noise? :wink5:
 
Christoffer Glans said:
With that said, what became clear to me by doing this test is that whenever you are loosing light at the end of a days shoot, people panic because they get noisy images when pushing to 3200, but you could easily go to 6400 and NR images to match 800 images. In some cases you can also go up to 12800 and still retain 4K detail in the images. I think this is a very positive thing because Red isn't a low light camera, but with some clever NR you are safe most of the time.
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I totally agree with this. A very important part of Red's definition of Raw: the (compressed) raw sensor data without any NR or amplification is the intention that you will leverage the power of desktop workstations to process the image. We all talk about the color-correction part of that, but Noise Reduction is as valid and important a part of that philosophy as the ability to change White Balance. It is a fact that you can do better noise reduction, with less loss of detail on your desktop than any camera can internally.

That's not to say that the A7s isn't better in very low light, it is. But it's a purpose-built camera for dim light that doesn't hold a candle (so to speak) to Red or Alexa in environments with a little light.

Why are you shooting Raw if you are going to ignore the power of the computer on your desktop to process the raw files?
 
You can add sharpening to the list of things left up to the post process and I've always been very pleased about that as the amount of sharpening can turn something from filmic to videoish at the touch of a slider.

Raw aw processing is a pretty powerful tool. I've always liked the philosophy of, gather and record all the sensor data, keep improving the extraction methods and leave stuff like sharpening and NR to taste.

Battistella
 
Even with Neat Video you can fine tune the chroma and luma NR levels to taste, but things like Dark Energy are really impressive. I haven't seen 4K/4K+ tests, but loved the results of processing extremely noisy 1080p HD material. When used carefully it can do wonders.
 
I sure wish that someone would do this with an Epic Dragon with the new OLPF.
 
Troy Bakewell said:
I sure wish that someone would do this with an Epic Dragon with the new OLPF.
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Actually I did this with a music video recently, although it was right before the release of the D.E.B Redcine-X. When I have the rights to show some before after of that I can post it here.
 
Great Christoffer!

Can you share a summary of your findings in the mean time? Overall, how did MX compare to Dragon at these extremes?
 
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