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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED DRAGON VS. F65 TEST HELP

I shot a feature with the F65 with my Epic as a B cam. The F65 had the upper hand, though the differences were small ( I am not biased; I own an Epic myself , soon to be upgraded) From all the tests I shot the main difference was color; the F65 had clearly the most neutral color (though a bit Sony yellowish skintones) and had the best color separation; especially if I was comparing sodium vapor streetlights the Epic made them a greenish yellow for all the different kinds where the Sony gave me more divers tones. Matching the two cameras was pretty straightforward; though the grading of the Epic stuff took some more time, especially in the skintones. My guess is that the new Dragons stuff will eliminate the difference between the two. Yes it is a big beast though operating Steadicam with it was not that bad. It draws a lot of current and has a rather wide built. We shot RAW light which a about the same size as Arri RAW. 16 TB for a feature is not that bad.
 
The F65 is the best digital high resolution camera on the market when speaking of resolution and color handling. But it's big, hard to handle and it's file handling is shit.
If you are only going for the "perfect" image, then shoot with the F65, if you want the next best image in high resolution go with the Epic, if you don't need high resolution and only 1080p then go with the Alexa. If you want a camera that's easy to handle and at the same time brings you very good high resolution images then go with the Epic.
 
Watch Oblivion with Tom Cruise. I believe the aerials were epic mx & the rest is f65. The f65 looks a little sharper to me (especially on the cinema) probably because of the 8k sensor that completely destroys the loss in resolution that occurs with debayering & the olpf when producing 4k images due to the super sampling.

But yes, it is a beast and you'd end up like the hunchback of notre damme trying to handheld that thing for more than 5mins.

Resolution isn't always everything. Right tool for the right job. If it's studio gig, the f65 is a great tool. If you're running & gunning it, not so much. The reds are so versatile which is why they're so great & I love the fact the BBC are shooting oodles with the new dragon especially that David Beckham amazon docco which I thought was amazing.

Craig Lees
SX UK
www.3dstories.co.uk
craig@3dstories.co.uk
 
Forward me their number, I'll shoot it on F65 for them :)

If you're getting annoyed at being asked to shoot Sony, please spare a minute to remember those of us who have bought Sony gear that have been asked "Do you shoot RED" for the past five years.
 
JayEmm said:
Forward me their number, I'll shoot it on F65 for them :)

If you're getting annoyed at being asked to shoot Sony, please spare a minute to remember those of us who have bought Sony gear that have been asked "Do you shoot RED" for the past five years.
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you have my sympathy... sorry;-)
 
Craig Lees said:
Watch Oblivion with Tom Cruise. I believe the aerials were epic mx & the rest is f65. The f65 looks a little sharper to me (especially on the cinema) probably because of the 8k sensor that completely destroys the loss in resolution that occurs with debayering & the olpf when producing 4k images due to the super sampling.
/QUOTE]
Oblivion was finished in 2k resolution so its hard to judge the sharpness of the picture in the movie.
Best
/Andreas
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Still waiting on the test results to come back to me, but i converted the client over to the dragon. Sent them a test and didn't tell them what it was they raved about how sharp it looked on there 100" 4k Display. I expect this as the Dragon has more photosites then the F65.
 
F65 RAW is somewhat goofy RAW and is more processed than RED RAW. It has some sharpening right out of the camera, R3D clips do not. Don't fall for the hype surrounding how Sony counts their pixels -- typical Sony marketing smoke and mirrors. But yes, it's still a Bayer pattern CMOS sensor as is the EPIC. F65 has more pixels than EPIC-MX, fewer pixels than EPIC-Dragon. Last I worked with the F65, Sony still had not released their full-res 6K RAW pipeline and was pushing out "RAW" that was down sampled to 4K, which also inherently created an increase in sharpening.

As for testing, this can be tricky. The direct RAW output from the cameras is going to be noticeably different and to those who don't know what they're looking at, they're going to almost always prefer the straight out of the camera image of the F65. It often puts us in the position of simply keeping a good client happy -- as in shoot with their camera of choice. If you want to make a case for shooting EPIC, then you can try to educate them on why it might be better for the job at hand. Best case you can make is to show them that you can get the exact look they may want from the EPIC and be able to do it within the time and budget constraints they have.

Edit> I guess I should have read the entire thread before my response. Glad to see your client liked what they saw. :) Yes, Dragon is wicked-sharp down sampled to 4K if shot and processed right.
 
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CJ Roy said:
All the aerials in Iceland and a few in Louisiana were with the F65, shot by David Nowell ASC.
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Kemalettin Sert said:
Just watched Bluray and BTS.%100 they shot fight scene in the end on Red Epic.Dont understand why on earth Claudio Miranda said They used Epic only on Cloud Enviroment plates.
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Epic used on other scenes too.
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
Epic used on other scenes too.
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Sure, but not on any of the aerials in Iceland. I was the DIT for the aerial unit. It was a great shoot and the footage looked amazing. The under cranking was a pain and wished we had an Epic for those sequences for the ease of use.

Also, the crash site scene aerials were filmed in Louisiana, on the F65. Not without some trouble.
 
try with F65 ;-)
 

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Jan Reiff said:
try with F65 ;-)
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You gotta ask: if size alone was the most important factor, why aren't big productions using a DSLR? Why are more Hollywood studio productions using Alexa?

I think this is a fairly profound question, and the answers are numerous and complex. It's not just about sharpness and it's not just about cost and it's not just​ about size.
 
sure it´s not. but Epic has for sure a lot of advantages for filmmaking as you can use it easily in a MoVi, Multicopter and so on ...
and honestly, the image was a little joke, ... sorry for posting. even this stuff is discussed here, jesus ...
btw - there are people that just want to take a camera in the backpack and go out to shoot without a 100 people Hollywood crew.
i don´t put an Alexa in my backpack, i am too old for this.
and the question, why are more hollywood studios working with Arri ... ? Serious ? The force of habit. not only in filmindustry btw ...
 
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