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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED Dragon vs. 65mm film...

Mark Toia said:
Jim.... when you wrote this, I doubted you, after the first 15minutes of testing the Dragon today.. FUCK ME ! Your dead right !
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Like many others here I signed up for the upgrade on blind faith that the Dragon would be worth the price. I never dreamed RED would pretty much double what they promised from the Dragon sensor. Now, from a trusted source comes validation the sensor will emulate 65mm film.

Suddenly, I feel damned important.
 
So colour wise on skintones how is Dragon looking now. (A positive question !)

And no Im not complaing at all by what we have on Epic, Im perfectly fine with it and why we were very pleased to have the opportunity invest in Red cameras at the outset.
 
Mark Toia said:
Jim.... when you wrote this, I doubted you, after the first 15minutes of testing the Dragon today.. FUCK ME ! Your dead right !
Click to expand...

:)


While I never had any doubts Dragon would be anything other than what was claimed, it is still really nice to witness your exuberance. Glad you're having fun, Mark. We're living vicariously through your posts at this point. Keep 'em coming.

E
 
Eryc Tramonn said:
EPIC helps, but you already had that covered, sir.
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Heh, heh... that could be taken different ways, i.e. that I suffer from an over-abundance of self-importance. '-)

(Pay no attention Eryc... just self-deprecating. Thanks for the compliment. '-)
 
Mark Toia said:
Jim.... when you wrote this, I doubted you, after the first 15minutes of testing the Dragon today.. FUCK ME ! Your dead right !
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AHHH! As if I couldn't be more excited already! Now where am I going to find a wall sized 4k TV to take advantage of this glorious resolution??
 
Justin O'Neill said:
AHHH! As if I couldn't be more excited already! Now where am I going to find a wall sized 4k TV to take advantage of this glorious resolution??
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Forget that. On any display medium smoothness will still be apparent and differentiated, as will the resulting better saturation, especially in darks where noise, even if shrunk down to lower res outputs, will harm color, and the absence of noise will help color sing and be true.
 
:sifone::sifone::emote_popcorn::emote_popcorn:
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
Forget that. On any display medium smoothness will still be apparent and differentiated, as will the resulting better saturation, especially in darks where noise, even if shrunk down to lower res outputs, will harm color, and the absence of noise will help color sing and be true.
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^ indeed! ^

Just the highlight rolloff all on it's own would have made me so very happy! But there will be SO much going on...

Everything better,
all at once,
again!
 
Mark Toia said:
Jim.... when you wrote this, I doubted you, after the first 15minutes of testing the Dragon today.. FUCK ME ! Your dead right !
Click to expand...


We all have/had our doubts about Dragon...what it was then vs. what it is now I'm sure were pretty close in execution.

Although a load of technology has improved over the last few years that have made Dragon even better than it was imagined to be.

Mark, you're input and expertise is one I always listen to (although the only thing I disagree with you on is work-flow, but everyone has their own way of doing things).

Let's see these tests!!
 
3D and Dragon.

3D and Dragon.

I like to shoot 3D in addition to the beam splitter side by side.

When I was using the Scarlets I could get the cameras closer as I bought the system that you can put the mem from the right side and also the +1 for the monitor.
After I upgraded to the Epics I can't get the cameras so close because they are not Flat by the side as the Scarlets.
Looks like the Dragon is even wider?

Is it possiblr to have an option to buy the sides of the Scarlets for this 3D purpose only so we can put the cameras really close?
 
We have already had many DPs compare 5K MX sensor to 65mm film. Dragon is more resolution and more dynamic range. Read Mark Toia's comments.

Jim

Christian Beenfeldt said:
Fantastic. It would be fun to see some side-by-side comparisons between 70/65 mm film and the Dragon. :-)
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In my martial arts days, what mattered most of the times was not just the size of the Shoe in determining the strength of the kick, but rater was the strength in the legs that made such determining difference in it's impacting power...

I think DRAGON is the perfect case of a sensor that while smaller then 65mm...

Has very strong legs... Which can and will deliver a numbing kick to any other sensor... Probably right in the nuts... ;)
 
I wouldn't compare Dragon with 65mm, but with 35mm, because the film grain and noise changes position every next frame and despite the 35mm = 4.5K equation the reality is that the film is way less noisy and way more defined than a 4K digital image.
 
John Hope said:
I wouldn't compare Dragon with 65mm, but with 35mm, because the film grain and noise changes position every next frame and despite the 35mm = 4.5K equation the reality is that the film is way less noisy and way more defined than a 4K digital image.
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Are you talking about 800ASA film or 2000ASA film... or what do you compare with?
 
John Hope said:
I wouldn't compare Dragon with 65mm, but with 35mm, because the film grain and noise changes position every next frame and despite the 35mm = 4.5K equation the reality is that the film is way less noisy and way more defined than a 4K digital image.
Click to expand...

John, I did some tests a while back , shooting 35mm ISO50 film ( 5203 I think it was ) , and an MX sensor RED. The Red was clearly higher definition, and even had better dynamic range usable.
I also image processed the Red images to add halation, grain and bloom simulation to help equalize the looks for the film look aficionados. I admit there were more difficulties pulling the skin tones out with Red, but it was doable.
The test I did is described, with images, here on Red User.
I am happy to challenge anyone in the Los Angeles area for a repeat of the test. MX sensor, not even Dragon. It is fun and educational to see the results.
 
John Hope said:
I wouldn't compare Dragon with 65mm, but with 35mm, because the film grain and noise changes position every next frame and despite the 35mm = 4.5K equation the reality is that the film is way less noisy and way more defined than a 4K digital image.
Click to expand...

yes, It is fact are you talking about 800ASA film or 2000ASA film... or what do you compare with?
And then, I'm very curious how can you say such a thing, you've already used a RED? or you have already had some tests done RED vs 35mm, resolution, dynamic range, etc etc, to say this?
 
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