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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED Dragon vs. 65mm film...

Well I guess if Red guys can cram so much latitude, resolution, sensitivity and better S/N ratio into S35 kind of sensor, it may be relatively easier to make cine full-frame, still 35mm full-frame / vistavision, full frame 70mm and dare I say 15 perf/70mm-sized Dragon (or should I call it Monstro) sensors after that. I know I'm dreaming right now, but if the DR is there already... just give a somewhat bigger (than the current Epic) 15/70 Dragon body to say Wally Pfister and ask him to try it and shoot something with it just for the sake of fun. Then you can place it side by side with scanned 15/70 IMAX footage and start the real discussion :). Oh, well I guess time will tell, but I'm all for bigger-sized sensors, I don't mind renting very certain glass for it, at all. I completely understand it's not the high priority right now.
 
Vadim Bobkovsky said:
Well I guess if Red guys can cram so much latitude, resolution, sensitivity and better S/N ratio into S35 kind of sensor, it may be relatively easier to make cine full-frame, still 35mm full-frame / vistavision, full frame 70mm and dare I say 15 perf/70mm-sized Dragon (or should I call it Monstro) sensors after that. I know I'm dreaming right now, but if the DR is there already... just give a somewhat bigger (than the current Epic) 15/70 Dragon body to say Wally Pfister and ask him to try it and shoot something with it just for the sake of fun. Then you can place it side by side with scanned 15/70 IMAX footage and start the real discussion :). Oh, well I guess time will tell, but I'm all for bigger-sized sensors, I don't mind renting very certain glass for it, at all. I completely understand it's not the high priority right now.
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Not dreaming at all, I actually have been thinking the same thing, were if this is what RED can do on a 35mm sensor, what will it become of the EPIC 645???

Most likely a Medium Format sensor that will be so far superior to 70mm IMAX that we'll blow our minds, and for me that will be my last camera, meeting all expectations for Large Print Photography and Cinema alike... Not that I am not happy now, or that Dragon will not be enough, just that having tasted 80MP MF sensors, I at times miss them, and with EPIC 645, I will no longer... ;)
 
Fantstic! Does it still have ISO2000 as a sweet spot?
 
Jannard said:
OK. This is the final frontier.

The RED Dragon sensor needs to be directly compared to 65mm film.

The Dragon has more resolution than 65mm film when scanned at 4K.

Jim
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When you guy post the first images please posts multiples R3D shots , not just stills ... or edited compressed videos ..

thanks

g
 
Martin Schneider said:
Arriflex 765 does.
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Sure, but lets see if you can name one advantage to actually shooting that 765... I can only think of one advantage myself and that is the film size is larger and you can gain some additional optical effects afforded by the larger imager and appropriate lenses to cover. Wider FOV's from comparatively longer focal lengths. If RED still comes through with their EPIC-645 system (and I sure hope they do), then that whole advantage goes right out the window. 645 format would put RED within about 10% of of the imager size of 15/70 IMAX. And I hope they do it with the same pixel density of Dragon, so we would probably be staring at roughly 11~12K frame sizes. ;)

Body to body, EPIC vs. 765 is like comparing a lunchbox to a boat anchor.
 
Would have been great to have this for shooting the Hobbit. Then you could have named one of the EPICs "Smaug."

Heh. For pickups maybe?
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
...the film size is larger and you can gain some additional optical effects afforded by the larger imager and appropriate lenses to cover. Wider FOV's from comparatively longer focal lengths.
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There you have it.

Jeff Kilgroe said:
If RED still comes through with their EPIC-645 system (and I sure hope they do), then that whole advantage goes right out the window.
Click to expand...

Hmm, will the Dragon we're talking about here be 645 Format?

Jeff Kilgroe said:
Body to body, EPIC vs. 765 is like comparing a lunchbox to a boat anchor.
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That's of course true :-)
 
From the bottom of my heart -- thank you for everything Jim & Jarred and the strong women behind both of you. Plus the bomb squad rocks -- especially Whitney Krapes ... Do whatever it takes to keep her please.

Brent, Graeme, Kris, and anyone else I forgot you rock too \m/ !
 
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mikeburton said:
Is there any color science improvements that come with Dragon? Will their be a new Gamma / Color space when Dragon gets released?
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I guess "yes and no"

As the sensors are different, the matrix to linearise the raw aquisition will be different, as will color/lightresponse.

But,
After that equalizing step, there is not neccesarily a "new" colorscience...

But if the new ASICS mean true 16 bit aquisition (which would, as far as I have understood how things work - imply a + 16 bit AD) to a full 16-bit linear float or non-float signal, my guess is that the new dragons will feel as epic an upgrade in post as Epic did over R1MX.


And somehow, based on recent developments @ Sony and Aaton and Canon, I guess that is about where they're heading. (This is just wild speculations, mind you!)

As Graeme has pointed out a number of times that Sony with the F65 has gone 16-bit float on the post ad signal, with 12 bits for latitude and 4 for float maths overhead, and kinda has not spoken too generously about that solution, I guess RED is driving up another path.

But with the added info, expect to get faster media to have "all the fun"... Low compression, more dynamics and more pixels, usually means higher bandwith.

Maybe the new "red" ssd's are the baseline for a Dragonized Epic... Just thinkin' out loud here, but nevertheless...
 
Martin Schneider said:
Arriflex 765 does.
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Martin, have you ever been next to that beast when shooing HFR????

Its as loud as a frisking JUMBO JET taking off, I literally freaked out form the noise and moved away I tough it was gone BLOW UP... ;)


Oh and... I forgot for how many seconds it can run on a Large Roll... ;)
 
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