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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED Dragon vs. 65mm film...

"The Dragon has more dynamic range than film... by a lot. 65mm film has about 14.5 stops. The Dragon has an easy 16 stops... without sweating."

I'm sweating in anticipation...
 
Move back from your computer screens, guys. RED might post Dragon images without warning.
 
Bill Anderson said:
Move back from your computer screens, guys. RED might post Dragon images without warning.
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Well... The warning came when they announced that Dragon would start shipping "before new year".
Usually that would mean something like dec 31st... :-)

I guess the spinning of new ASICS to unleash the Dragon has pushed it all back a bit, but judging from Jims posts, We can see images any animated moment. Problem will be to set them in a proper perspective. They will be juicy, we "know" that, but how to know what is "new" in them?

A/B with current Epic?
 
make the skin tones as nice. Don't forget skin tones. :)
 
Martin Schneider said:
Hmm, will the Dragon we're talking about here be 645 Format?
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No. Not unless something totally amazing and unexpected happens. ;)


In the past, RED announced several models of EPIC and Scarlet brains with various sizes of sensors ranging from Super35 as we have now on up to 645 and even 6x17cm Panoramic. The two big guys, the 645 and 617 models would have definite uses. Both could easily serve as full IMAX replacements to start with. The use of the 617 model for commercial purposes, digital signage, interactive spaces, etc... I still salivate over the possibilities of these two cameras. Who knows when or if they will become reality.
 
So, it seems like you guys upped the horsepower on the ASIC huh? :gun:

I love 96fps. I shoot nearly everything at that framerate. So stoked to get 6K at that speed.
 
Looking forward to seeing it. A clean 2000 ISO would be very useful in so many ways. Even more dynamic range would make my live even easier than it already is. Shooting with my Scarlet is already amazing, just a huge improvement of regular HD. To have a camera with the power of a film camera has improved my ability to tell stories that are not only compelling, but also contain poetry. When I can afford a Dragon Epic I will get one. It is hard to imagine needing anything more than that. Would love if you could add internal ND though. Using matte boxes or variable ND on a lens gets in the way and slows you down. Plus, not all my lenses fit my matte box so some I can't easily use when ND is needed. I am guessing with the Dragon ND becomes more necessary.
 
Maybe those slower, older zooms will have new life considering many are going to have to stop down anyway if we're talking about native ISO of 2000. And what of the built in ND's? Will that be happening?
 
Interesting that Dragon is 100fps... did we not see a slip up from Jarred about frames per second on race day?? was that funny car our first glimpse at Dragon???

I was not thinking about upgrading anytime soon, but saying that Dragon is 65mm makes me think differently.
 
Jannard said:
OK. This is the final frontier.

The RED Dragon sensor needs to be directly compared to 65mm film.

The Dragon has more resolution than 65mm film when scanned at 4K.

The Dragon has more dynamic range than film... by a lot. 65mm film has about 14.5 stops. The Dragon has an easy 16 stops... without sweating.

The EPIC Dragon will shoot nearly 100fps. 65mm film cameras... not so much.

Cost to shoot the RED Dragon vs. 65mm film... ridiculously not close.

Dragon should never be compared to 35mm film. It should only be spoken in reference to 65mm film from here on out.

So you own an EPIC? You upgrade.

Have a nice day....

Jim
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Can't wait to see sample footage with this broader dynamic range! Are there any improvements in color and skin tone rendition?
 
Current MX sensor's active area is 27.7x14.6, but the sensor's physical dimensions are 30x15. So now the question that really matters is what are the active area dimensions and exact resolution. I've seen people throw numbers out before, only to have Jarred say they were wrong. :)

...I guess we wait for the little tidbits of info to start coming out. Images soon! Yay!
 
Jannard said:
Every lens works with Dragon. You just might have to select a slightly smaller resolution if you have a small image circle lens.
Jim
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Coolness ... I think some of my cinema lenses might need to be like 5.6k width, would be nice for this to be user entered (even within a lens line, sometimes the circle varies).
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Current MX sensor's active area is 27.7x14.6, but the sensor's physical dimensions are 30x15. So now the question that really matters is what are the active area dimensions and exact resolution.
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Jarred also says in that quote that Dragon is 10% bigger in both directions which would make Dragon's active sensor area 30.7mm x 15.8mm.
 
When it comes to shooting underwater, we are already there by a long shot :)

A combination of custom optics that is actually able to resolve 5k+ and a small bag of tricks, the images coming out of the Epic now are significantly sharper as compared to those acquired with 65mm mainly because the optical design used with 65mm format is limiting the final quality to less than 1k!

For example, this quality has never been possible in any format, not even on any still picture camera nor 65mm film. Nothing was this sharp - ever.

Can't wait for the Dragon :)
 
Martin Weiss said:
Time for Deanan to fire up Photoshop for an update to this post on comparing the Epic to an Alexa:

attachment.php
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The LCD/EVF on my Epic plugs in differently, what am I looking at?
 
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