Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Dragon ISO Texture Versus Film Grain

Matt Ryan said:
Great stuff Phil!

Any chance to do a noise comparison to the other top dog digital cameras?
Click to expand...

Don't they have their own forums for that? '-)
 
  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
  • #23
Matt Ryan said:
Great stuff Phil!

Any chance to do a noise comparison to the other top dog digital cameras?
Click to expand...


There is a good chance, but I know for a fact that another Dragon owner is going to be doing a very real stress test and side by side soon of several of the cameras. That should happen very soon. I might pop in for a visit on that one, but I already like what he's planning on doing. He's just pulling together the cameras and space to make it happen right now.

Individually though we've already tested the big A and the big S extensively and know what they can do and what they can't. It will be nice to do the side by side though.

I'm kinda at a point personally where all of this testing is getting crazy, but I'm sure I'll be doing more of it.

All I can say truly is Dragon is damn good. Color, Dynamic Range, Resolution, etc..... And hot damn that IR nonsense is taken care of and I can't stress how important that is for day to day shooting.

Some will say it's the best digital cinema camera on the market (where I'm leaning towards), some won't for whatever technical and subjective reasons. Certainly it's a better value in terms of a price/performance ratio and the workflow and general ecosystem is pretty damn impressive. If used properly it's the current industry leader.

Long story short. My concern is 4K+ cinema and UHD delivery. Dragon is scratching all my itches and rubbing all my belly. I've made a significant investment in this gear and you guys see how "testy" I get with stuff. If something was out of whack I'd be shooting something else.

Red's really done something special here.
 
Matt Ryan said:
I forget, you don't care about anything non RED or how they compare ;)
Click to expand...

I'm just thinking Cinematographer.com or other neutral site should be where those tests are conducted. This is after all, REDuser.

EDIT: But I defer to Phil's response.
 
Elsie N said:
iI'm just thinking Cinematographer.com or other neutral site should be where those tests are conducted. This is after all, REDuser.
Click to expand...

Come on Elsie, we've been doing comparison tests on here forever (We have access to RED's cameras more than anywhere else to test..). Why do you seriously want to dumb down Reduser and make it a fanboy only forum? This is why some of the top ASC cinematographers who used to post here refuse to return.
 
Matt Ryan said:
Come on Elsie, we've been doing comparison tests on here forever (We have access to RED's cameras more than anywhere else to test..). Why do you seriously want to dumb down Reduser and make it a fanboy only forum? This is why some of the top ASC cinematographers who used to post here refuse to return.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but if RED beats the other cameras in the tests then they (the top cinematographers) start posting here again screaming the tests were not conducted properly (meaning to cover what matters to them) and suddenly the whole Internet is flooded with accusations (by those who quote blurbs) of RED-rigged tests.

That serves no one's best interests here who are owner operators (unlike yourself, who has nothing to lose.) For RED's sake and for the sake of their customers who actually own their cameras, there is nothing to be gained by striking a match to dead grass.

EDIT: If it seems I am very protective of the brand... I plead guilty.
 
Last edited:
Why don't you guys take this to PM instead of clouding up this thread?

Just a friendly suggestion. :)

Battistella
 
David Battistella said:
Why don't you guys take this to PM instead of clouding up this thread?

Just a friendly suggestion. :)

Battistella
Click to expand...

If this was a personal argument where we were throwing insults at one another, I would agree with you. In this case, I think we are each offering the two sides to the coin and for that reason, I think openly discussing is the proper thing.
 
David Battistella said:
Why don't you guys take this to PM instead of clouding up this thread?

Just a friendly suggestion. :)

Battistella
Click to expand...

haha because I can't post a comment without Elsie countering me anywhere....
 
It's like having to read an IM chat!

:)

Have a phone call, you'll resolve all your differences in about 40 seconds.

Battistella
 
Matt Ryan said:
haha because I can't post a comment without Elsie countering me anywhere....
Click to expand...

Nothing personal Matt. We have actually been on the same side of an issue in the past, IIRC. But we do seem to be on different tracks going in different directions lately. '-)
 
David Battistella said:
It's like having to read an IM chat!

:)

Have a phone call, you'll resolve all your differences in about 40 seconds.

Battistella
Click to expand...

Ah, then if you haven't seen point/counterpoint then Matt and I have not been doing our part in this. But I've made my main point so I think this particular discussion is just about to fade away on its own. I'm pretty sure it would have done so already if we both had not felt compelled to answer your post '-)
 
I'd call that last post machiavellian but it's just clever.

Back on topic ladies.

Battistella
 
:smash::smash::smash:

and then....

:sifone::sifone::sifone:
 
Phil Holland said:
Heh. While I agree that film was "always" pleasant. It was a big pain in the butt for me back when I was a colorist. Pushing out color wedges, bath/lab variance, NG prints, getting the damn lightbox calibrated to the projector and the monitor, calibrating the laser recorder, etc.....

It was chaos. Chaos that got better over time, but I remember sitting in a theater about 27 miles from the studio and nearly pulling my hair out because what I saw on screen varied from what I had in a can back in the office.

Digital cinema cameras and digital delivery potentially eliminates much of that chaos. Exposure can be precisely nailed in camera in a way it hasn't been able to before.

Dragon rights a lot of the wrongs in my mind. You still need to shoot well, expose well, and take the appropriate steps when shooting.

I do think some digital cinema cameras have made people rather reckless when it comes to exposure which leads to colorist's nightmares, but typically in experienced hands who know and understand the cameras you're hitting home runs each time at bat. The tools are there right in front of you to do so.

graypatch.jpg



Once more film folks get to testing and shooting Dragon I'm more and more curious what their thoughts are on it. I know from a couple folks and at least two large productions going on right now where it's been used in combination with film that they have been more or less happy. Those are still shooting though.

I've done a fair chunk of tests now though and have been shooting "real stuff" too. I know what Dragon can do. I got strangely intimate with it. More so than Mysterium-X because I didn't hit as many walls and it made me want to look deeper.
Click to expand...

What film stock is this grain from?
 
  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
  • #39
Mark Wilkinson said:
What film stock is this grain from?
Click to expand...

Vision and Vision3 on the two samples.

In the still image of the print of the LAD patch on the lightbox, I haven't the foggiest. That still was from 8-10 years ago. The neg was filmed out on the ARRIlaser via intermediate recording stock. Can't remember the print stock back then.

I'm either old or losing my mind or a combination of both.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top