RED Color - A look at REDWideGamutRGB/Log3G10

[Phil Holland]

Something is brewing in the cauldron full of colorful pixel paint at RED. Something..... Different.

Graeme has been hard at work developing something new relating to what we know about the color out of RED cameras. And it's looking very, very interesting.

This is an in progress development with much mystery surrounding it still. There's been some discussion already, but I thought I'd share a bit of my thoughts about what we've seen so far with a few comparison images.

I've been filming on the road since late July. Long days, long hours. What I do have is time to test REDWideGamutRGB and Log3G10 in my hotel room at each location.


First, some quick words regarding color and RED Digital Cinema Cameras.

The first thing that should be said, one of the great powers of REDCODE RAW is tapping into the evolving world of Color Science. Improvements and variations on Color Spaces and Gamma Curves can be applied non-destructively to past, current, and future footage. These are often used as a good starting point right out of camera. However, as we all know taking most footage to a good colorist and/or working on it yourself can really make the footage sing, which is true for all cameras really.

The inherent look of a capture medium is often what seduces the cinematographer. This happens with various film stocks and processing methods. This has also occurred in the world of digital cinema. Each unique sensor and each approach to color provides a distinct result. Much of this is due to the nature of the sensor itself and how it's processed (or not processed) in camera. Dynamic Range, Noise/Texture/Grain, bit depth, etc... Through the process of Color Correction and Color Grading you can navigate the color in your shots to an even more desirable image. Further still, some deploy 3D LUTs on a production or a scene by scene basis to produce something unique.

Over the years RED has had several inherent looks. The M, Mysterium-X, Dragon, and more recently Helium sensor all have a unique essence. For me personally, when RED released the Dragon sensor technology some time back I found a sensor and camera system that provided a colorful and flexible image that I could manipulate to my heart's desire. Rich, dense, thick color and dynamic range. From this starting point, with Dragon footage often at DRAGONcolor2/REDlogFilm, I crafted many 3D LUTs with unique looks to guide the image even further into something I was more in love with. Then often grading from there.

Here's an example of a "Thickening LUT" I created some time ago that I posted back in June:

The concept there was based on my fondness for the shear amount of color and dynamic range that can be found within the .R3D footage. With various LUTs I was/am essentially creating a new look to the medium. Thicker, denser, slight color variations, different levels of saturation, some variance specifically targeted at skintones etc...

And I think that's exactly what Graeme is doing with what we've seen out of the REDWideGamutRGB/Log3G10 + Transform LUT. Essentially creating a new look for footage out of RED cameras. And the key bit is often the final Transform LUT in this equation as well.


REDWideGamutRGB/Log3G10 Samples and Thoughts:

Now for some images. Most of these are from RED Weapon 6K or 8K VV Dragon. Natural light with a bit of mixed ambiance. I'll point out a few things I'm seeing along the way. Various OLPFs were used as I'm testing everything I can.

Specifically take a look at the highlights in the background. Highlight roll-off is a bit different. More highlight detail is smoothly retained. The additional thing to look at is the more vibrant skintones as well.

My fleshtones towards the key light are very nice. Also, the ambiance in the room with the yellow-ish/tungsten-ish light is being picked up more correctly to how it was in the actual room.

This one has a few key things to look at. The yellow column on the lamp, towards the top you can see super saturation of the yellow closest to the light bulb. However, in the RWG/Log3G10 sample you can see it's much more tamed and wrangled in a pleasing direction. The same could be said for all the near clipping points in the image. Also the detail and color rendering of the sheets is smoother, richer. Same for the wood on the cabinet.

The highlight detail retained in the background is superb while my fleshtones are more vibrant and richer.

A very mixed lighting scenario, white balanced towards the daylight side of things. While I don't have the ability to setup tungsten lighting here in the hotel room properly, this makes me think tungsten filming will be a bit more fun with this approach to color.

One of my favorite test setups that shows just how much more juicer the skintones can be. For those who have not met me my eyes are typically a hazel/green and that is more correctly seen in the RWG/Log3G10 image.

Another favorite thus far. The highlights are smoothly retained with a smoother look to the key side of my face as well.

Again with the smoother tonality and I absolutely love what's going on with the lamps in the background. Smooth with more of a unified color harmony.

Using the ambiance of the light hitting my hand to light my face. The palm is actually clipping here, so you can see how that's handled. The skin palette has a lot more subtle variety as well.

Another shot with the lamps showing different skin and highlight richness and harmony.

Another favorite as you can barely detect the ambient fill in the DC2/RG4, but clearly can see it in the RWG/Log3G10 image.

I have a couple stray RED Epic Mysterium-X frames with me here. You can see there's certain improvements there over RC4. The "pinky-ness" is replaced with more richness. This frame is 3 years old.


Quick Thoughts on REDWideGamutRGB/Log3G10 + Transform LUT

If you weren't bored looking at my noggin, here's a quick summary of what I'm seeing overall with this approach to color:

- Richer more vibrant skintones that removes some of the "pinkyness" occasionally rendered.
- Subtle hues are more accurately rendered.
- Richer tonality. Exposed and overexposed highlights are placed in a more visibly pleasing place. Shadows are less crunchy.
- Super saturation, especially at or near clipping point appear much, much nicer.
- Blues are rendered much, much better. Less purple and magenta influence overall.
- Overall color is a more natural response that is truer to human perception.
- And surprise subtle thing. Noise might be slightly less visible as a side effect to this approach. Still testing this actually.


I'm very excited. Thank you Graeme for the hard work. Can't wait to see how it all plays out when the boards are nailed to the ground. I'm seeing a new character to the medium being built here and it's looking great.

It's fun to grade with as well.

There are some small changes coming, but I certainly like what direction this development is going towards.

 

[Anton Shavlik]

I do like just about everything you've noticed changing with these new colors and gammas, but the skin tones feel a bit jaundiced, at least on my monitor.

 

[Brody_B]

I do like just about everything you've noticed changing with these new colors and gammas, but the skin tones feel a bit jaundiced, at least on my monitor.

I got the same here. but just slightly. I do definitely like the last image with the treatment on it.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

FYI consistently in testing here if you flick back and forth on a raw development based upon the REDWideGamut approach and the older approach, what you see are a few things, much of what I notice in Phil's testing: less green in skin / more pleasing skin tone, more 3D roundness to objects (particularly aparrent on large screens or when projected), better highlight retention, much more accurate rendering of orange/yellow hues (especially on sunsets). What I like most however, is how you get much greater hue visibility and reduced homogeneity.

Graeme

 

[paulherrin]

i think you might want to adjust your LUT just slightly away from yellow up towards orange/red and maybe even desat towards blue; it could just be my laptop screen, but the chip chart doesn't lie...
otherwise, good stuffs!

 

[Antony Newman]

Thanks Phil & G.

Skin tones look less clamped around white (color), dipping further into black (luma). Feels like there is more depth.

Lots of separation between green and yellow in skin too, giving more visual cues on the skins incidence (to warm light sources)

High Luma rollout renders more 'convincingly' too.

AJ

 

[Steve Conry]

Thanks Phil. I think the wide gamut seems to help make great use of the dr, but color wise it does still have a green cast to the skin tones to me when placed next to the older color profiles. The green/magenta cast, particularly noticeable in the skin tones and blacks, has always been problematic imo.

 

[Derek Morrison]

Phil, this is great stuff as usual. I'm seeing the same things even going back to some old Mysterium footage, RWG gives it new life. Big thanks for writing this up and Huge thanks to Greame! Incredible development. :beer::cheers2:

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Is the "thickening LUT" based of RWG/3G10 or RedlogFilm only? If not, will you make a "thickening LUT" for RWG as well?

 

[Mike P.]

Definitely looking more "tungsteny" in the mixed lighting setups, but that's probably a result of increased accuracy. I am definitely noticing more pleasing roll-off (really curious how this effects Helium).

Phil, would you happen to have an old MX frame with clipped highlights in it? Would love to see the differences of RWG/310.

Graeme, what's the estimated roll-out of this in a release build of RCXp and/or firmware? (and is it gonna be supported by DSMC1 in camera?)

 

[Tommaso Alvisi]

I am definitely noticing more pleasing roll-off (really curious how this effects Helium).

Since Helium seems a little harsher in HL rolloff from the (few unfortunately) early tests, it probably all started to help it...then it improved Dragon and MX too...win-win situation!?

 

[Adam Montville]

I'm seeing "less green", but "more yellow" skin tones, most of the time for the better, but others make it look too yellow. I think it is the lighting though, and thinking can easily pull it in grading.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

We've been testing combining 3D LUTs with REDWideGamutRGB/Log3G10 - and it's totally insane. Amazing difference.

Counting the seconds for this to be enabled in the camera for monitor path output -as this will be the killer combo for on-set live grading with CDLs and LUTs.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

I'm sure it's just me, but I definitely prefer the REDColor2/REDGamma4 look to the "new" look being mentioned. It just looks a lot more natural to me.

Stephen

 

[paulherrin]

^^i think these just demonstrate expanded skintones at a pretty saturated level

 

[Marc Wielage]

i think you might want to adjust your LUT just slightly away from yellow up towards orange/red and maybe even desat towards blue; it could just be my laptop screen, but the chip chart doesn't lie...

I would look at it on scopes before I would try to judge it on a laptop.

We typically do a little bit of minus yellow (or a very slight yellow -> red curve) for a lot of stuff in color correction. It all looks fine.

 

[paulherrin]

i did look at it on scopes... technically it's right there in a decent skintone range, just my preference to err away from yellow and i like a little desaturation
and i mean, it does look like tungsten-lit (the shots i'm talking about), but tungsten sometimes gets too yellowish for me... if that's the look you're going for - okay

 

[Steven Abrams]

I'm sure it's just me, but I definitely prefer the REDColor2/REDGamma4 look to the "new" look being mentioned. It just looks a lot more natural to me.

Totally agree. Skin does not look good on the new ones.

 

[Brian Boyer]

Although I'm totally digging the RWG/Log3G10 look on the skin of these three,

...these two in particular look like Phil needs to get his liver checked out.

I see the improvement in "fleshiness" but the amount of yellow in the skin seems a little hit or miss (spot on or too much), depending on the lighting and environment.

Funny thing is, when you stare at the RWG/Log3G10 side long enough without looking at the other side, the yellow starts to normalize and not look so drastic.

Maybe the room is bouncing a lot more yellow around than it seems and this new approach is picking up more of what the tungsten lights are laying down. I dunno.

I guess the other thing to consider is how this increase in yellow will affect makeup. As I've said before, when people complain about "skin" they're often really referring to the look of makeup on the skin.

I'm assuming Phil isn't wearing any and he's going pretty yellow. I've noticed (mostly on males) that makeup artists tend to add a yellow base to actors with very pink skin. Will this emphasis on yellow in the skin tones be completely over the top in that situation?

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

We typically do a little bit of minus yellow (or a very slight yellow -> red curve) for a lot of stuff in color correction. It all looks fine.

And what if...that minus yellow doesn't fix all the stuff ?

And what if...you wouldn't have to waste time on "fixing" things, in the context of certain camera-related image properties ?