Red Camera Losers

[Rick Darge]

I was at a meeting with a producer today and they were trying to get my camera package and me on the cheap which is understandable, however, when the producer told me that they had another camera operator that had a full Red package, with lenses for RENT for $179/weekend, I just had to LOL all over the place.. Who are these people and why did you buy a Red camera? Crazy

 

[sergio arguello]

when the producer said that were his/her lips moving? you know what they say...

 

[NateWeaver]

Eh, that would have to be a VERY scrappy Red package.

Any "producer" who is quoting rates like that is not really somebody you want to be working with anyways (i.e. not smart enough to know a shit package from a real one)

[edit: I can't stop with this one. It just occurred to me that that would probably be working for less than minimum wage]

 

[Noah Kadner]

Yeah think how many weekends it would take just to pay off the body at that rate....

Noah

 

[Brad Webb]

the producer told me that they had another camera operator that had a full Red package, with lenses for RENT for $179/weekend,

Wow, I charge more than that to PA. All you can say to that producer is, go ahead and use that guy. I'm sure you'll get your money's worth. :ciappa:

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I've had that happen to me a few times. So I just tell the producer / director to go hire the cheaper kit and remind them they have my number for when that deal doesn't work out. I think most of the time it's a bluff to get me to drop my rates. I've also found that my definition of a "full kit" and what most other people consider a "full kit" are two entirely different things. I've run across a number of "full kit" owners who don't even have the EVF or a more than a couple batteries, no decent FF, etc..

 

[Greg M]

from my experience you dont want to work for the producer that isnt willing to pay your rate anyway. Stick to your rate and build a client base that's willing to pay what you ask.

The clients that pay the least demand the most. Its the way its always been. You will end up working twice as hard for 1/10th the money...why?

 

[Jeff Coatney]

One of the low-ball producers I've worked with was sued by a PA and taken to court to enforce the minimum wage law. The court really stuck it to him. They went back three years and audited him and forced him to pay everyone that did not receive minimum wage the full rate. That alone cost him $20,000. He's a believer now. There are Producers out there that talk a good game, but the bottomline is: they can only Produce by lying, low-balling you and skipping out when the check's due. They never last long and they get a toxic reputation that sticks like glue. I enjoy their inevitable downfall.

If you're offered a ridiculously low rate, refuse it, and ask for the name of the person offering the "Great Deal" so we can make them famous here on reduser.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Well half the people on most low-budget indie shoots are making less than "minimum wage." That's the way a lot of people get thier foot in the door. If your work is quality and you are good to work with, your wages and job offers will steadily increase.

I just really cannot imagine what this guy is thinking with 180 a weekend or whatever. Maybe he's dead broke, going through a divorce, who knows. Or he just doesn't have any experience or connections and is trying to use the camera to get his foot in the door.

 

[Stephen Lovett]

So frustrated

So frustrated

This is happening more and more from my perspective, and I'm unsure what has shifted to cause the increase.

Hey Mr. producer, i get more than that for one day with our EX-3 and no operator, uhm that would be a no.

I got offered $50.00 a day for a music video shoot this week. $50.00.

2060/EVF/FF4/MB20/drives w/iso's/CF,18-85, and he wanted my full light kit including HMI's.

Un friggen believable.

I'm one of those guys that's still getting into the business, but there isn't going to be a business for anybody if we work at rates like that.

 

[Shawn Booth]

Was called for a Snoop Dogg video -

2 Day shoot, as DP with camera - rate was $500 total...:skep:

 

[Wesley Scoggins]

Who are these people and why did you buy a Red camera? Crazy

People with a lot of money that want to "break in".

I have met a few people who were willing to rent out equipment at rates that made it sound like they stole it off of a truck. But they just have money, can get the equipment, and don't really need to get paid a lot to work on sets, and just really want to be involved in a film production.

I know for friends that i've taken a big pay cut in a lot of areas while working on their films/projects. Don't have my own Red package yet, but if I did, i'd consider renting it at comparable rates, if I didn't need the money.

 

[Rob Gardner]

I don't know why everybody is complaining about this. Times are hard and anyway, there is always somebody who will shoot the film or produce the film cheaper than you will. If you don't want to do the job, just say no. There is not and has never been a shortage of assholes in the world and especially in our business...

 

[Brad Webb]

The real truth is that producers get X amount of money for a project. If they spent 1/2 of X actually making the project, then they can pocket the other 1/2 of X. I worked on one music video where I found out the producer had budgeted $150 a day for 3 PA's, yet hired "interns" to work it for free and pocketed $150 a day for himself.

There is nothing wrong for working for less especially if you are trying to get experience (and nothing wrong with working for free for a project you feel deserves it.) If I could afford a Red I would be charging less for myself and a full kit than most people would charge for the body only, but $180 for a weekend is retarded. That's DVX or no camera money. Not only are you underselling yourself but you are also under valuing everyone else in the field.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Rick,
What if the Producer was just flat out lying to get a better rate from you?

 

[Vince K]

The producer was probably just lying to get a price like they usually do.
If not, they will definitely get what they pay for.

$189 for a weekend for a RED "kit" ??? AND lenses??? wow

That's usually my Friday night bar tab...

 

[jimhare]

Sometimes I feel like my client is willing to give everyone money as long as they aren't me!

It's like, "can we get you and your camera? We only have $500." Then I hear him take a call asking if they can license a song they don't even really need for the project.

"Fine, as long as it's under $5000..."

What happened to having no money?

 

[Craig Ryan]

This is ridiculous; I was payed 350$ for one days work shooting B-Roll for a brewery; and this was on my DVX!

 

[Jeff Coatney]

There is no $50 buck per day movie job that will help you break into anything better than another $50 per day movie job. The producer I mentioned vowed never again to hire the people that the court ordered him to pay. One former crew member actually gave him back the money. This guy breaks the law, is caught, ordered by the court to make restitution to the people he failed to pay minimum wage to, and has the temerity to resent those people who willingly worked for him for less than the legal rate. That is the personality you're dealing with, with these guys. He's a financial Sociopath. Can you really argue that working for such a person will help your career?

 

[Steve Gibby]

When faced with a ridiculously low fee offer, I just smile, tell them "Quality work will always cost you what a professional is worth - so I'm not the person for your project", and then I simply walk away.

Beyond my work as a director, DP, and cinematographer, I also produce. My philosophy when crewing a production has always been to surround myself with the very best professionals I can afford, then treat them very well, and pay them what they are worth. As a result they invariably do their best work - and in the process we create an ongoing business relationship.

If every producer in this industry would have worked that way all along, this would be a radically different industry - and there would probably have never been any movements to form unions.