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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red and the infraRED

Russel,

Well Like I've said before, It's not an issue until it is ;) For most people with the average scene, and minimal ND it won't be a problem. But once you stack ND or try to make a shot with a product that has to be color accurate it can be very apparent. If you don't know what to look for it can actually be pretty hard to figure out.

The photography version of a hot mirror (486 filter) does ALWAYS have to be the outermost filter. It doesn't look like a mirror from strait on, but if you view it from an angle you'll get some weird magenta/cyan reflections. Earlier in the thread i posted a shot of a filter from off axis and it will give you an idea what they look like.
 
Russell Fogle said:
Oops... Forgot to attach images...
Click to expand...

ND.9 +a smaller aperture will work fine. Also, a lot of outdoor stuff is really shot in shadow - like the pics you posted - so light is already reduced heavily. Those shots don't need super heavy ND so no problems.

It's when you're standing in direct sunlight and want to open up the aperture that you'll need heavy ND and have to deal with this issue.
 
joelnet said:
ND.9 +a smaller aperture will work fine. Also, a lot of outdoor stuff is really shot in shadow - like the pics you posted - so light is already reduced heavily. Those shots don't need super heavy ND so no problems.

It's when you're standing in direct sunlight and want to open up the aperture that you'll need heavy ND and have to deal with this issue.
Click to expand...

What we need are some test images of an electric heater, stove, steel furnice, desert at mid-day sun shot with as many heavy NDs as possible stacked :matrix: and shot fully opened, bump camera sensitivity if needed. Tree leaves also reflect IR.
 
I just received a new hot mirror test glass from Rosco. It is thicker like a Schneider matte box filter and cuts deeper into the IR range than the one I tested earlier in this thread (post #109.)

I'll be doing a comparison test in the next couple of days and posting the results on the "RED and Infrared" thread.

Michael
 
Micheal, do you have the product number or code for the new Rosco hot mirror?
 
Mike Prevette said:
Micheal, do you have the product number or code for the new Rosco hot mirror?
Click to expand...

Mike, this isn't a real product yet. It's something in development.

The existing Rosco hot glass, although thinner, works very well, by the way. I think it's a fine solution until Tiffen or Schneider or Rosco start delivering.

Michael
 
Where do we stand?

Where do we stand?

I see Pancro has grabbed the ball and run with it, and their solution looks good:

http://www.pancro.com/

Tiffen evidently has an offering, although it will likely have an unattractive price. Any news about the new improved Rosco IR filter testing?

This seems to me to be of vital interest to the entire Red user community.

dn
 
DNomer said:
I see Pancro has grabbed the ball and run with it, and their solution looks good:

http://www.pancro.com/

Tiffen evidently has an offering, although it will likely have an unattractive price. Any news about the new improved Rosco IR filter testing?

This seems to me to be of vital interest to the entire Red user community.

dn
Click to expand...

I saw Tiffen IR at NAB. They had a choice of clear or ND's from .3 to 1.8 (I think)
Price: $600 ea. as I recall. Sorry I didn't write it down.
 
DNomer said:
Any news about the new improved Rosco IR filter testing?
Click to expand...

I tested a new Rosco dichro coating formulation this last Friday and it is even better than the two versions that preceded it. Rosco is super close to delivering this IR cut solution.

I started a Rosco TruColor IR group-buy thread elsewhere and will deliver all of my findings here and there.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12516

Michael
 
DNomer said:
I see Pancro has grabbed the ball and run with it, and their solution looks good:

http://www.pancro.com/

Tiffen evidently has an offering, although it will likely have an unattractive price. Any news about the new improved Rosco IR filter testing?

This seems to me to be of vital interest to the entire Red user community.

dn
Click to expand...

Hey all,

I talked to both Tiffen and Schneider at NAB. Schneider is working on a solution that sounds best to me -- an ND/IR cut filter, with the IR on the glass element facing toward subject, but on the inside surface so you can clean it, with an regular ND sandwich behind it. However, they won't be out for another 3 months or so.

Tiffen has ND/IR filters now, and I was able to score a 1.2 and 1.8 from Steve at Abelcine. Apparently the don't cut 100% of the IR, but about 90%.

I had a shoot immediately after NAB so I needed something in hand. We rented .3, .6 and .9 Panchros as well since I wasn't sure we'd be able to get the Tiffens at the time.

On the shoot we mostly used the Panchros, but got hosed a couple of times with minor internal reflections by using a .9 Panchro with either a .3 or .6 standard Schneider ND stacked with a pola.

We then used the 1.2 Tiffen only on the next day with great results and no internal reflections.

The Tiffen seemed to work fine even though it appears warmer to the eye than the Schneider NDs.

Had the Scheider's been available, I would have preferred to go that way. But if you need a solution now, I'd recommend the Tiffen ND IRs. The Panchro mirror can be an issue in some shots.

No question that IR is an issue in bright exteriors.

Hope that helps guys.
 
As product manager for Formatt Filters at Bogen; I just spent the day in the field testing Formatt Hot Mirror and Hot Mirror-Neutral Density Combination filters with an owner .
The tests were successful and I have announced the release of the filters to my key dealers and reps around the country. Formatt dealers will have the pricing the beginning of next week and the availability by the middle of the week.
The filters have the coating inside the glass on both the Hot Mirror and the Hot Mirror ND's.
Wayne Schulman
 
Hey Wayne

Have you got some more info on your website or a link. Hot Mirror + ND will be a good choice.
 
Formatt makes the filters with the coating between the glass and is starting to take orders for cine sizes.
 
panchros...

panchros...

Just wanted to say that after six weeks of shooting with the panchros, they are not the ideal choice.

The "non-mirrored" side of the panchros has an extremely reflective surface. If you are using any other filters and shoot really bright objects you will likely encounter ghosting.

I know another person on this forum who returned his.

I am keeping mine. They are good filters if you use them on their own, but I am going to investigate a set of "regular" ND's.

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
 
dmacleod said:
Just wanted to say that after six weeks of shooting with the panchros, they are not the ideal choice.

The "non-mirrored" side of the panchros has an extremely reflective surface. If you are using any other filters and shoot really bright objects you will likely encounter ghosting.

I know another person on this forum who returned his.

I am keeping mine. They are good filters if you use them on their own, but I am going to investigate a set of "regular" ND's.

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
Click to expand...

Stan from filtergallery.com has his own engraving machine than can eliminate the mirror side of Pancro basically put another layer, this is to eliminate the problem like you mention. Give him a call and found out about his service.

BTW, how do you stack your filters. Pancro filters supposed to be the furthest away from the lens.
 
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