Dalsa guys: Red seems fishy

[donatello b]

"Send me their names and I will add them to my "do not sell to list"

glad to see i'm not the only one with a "do not " list ..
there are 3 Dp's in my area that are on my do not let see/use my REDS ..
if they ever call about using/seeing my REDS i'll quote them their post from cinematograpghy.com

 

[Stephen Williams]

"Send me their names and I will add them to my "do not sell to list"

glad to see i'm not the only one with a "do not " list ..
there are 3 Dp's in my area that are on my do not let see/use my REDS ..
if they ever call about using/seeing my REDS i'll quote them their post from cinematograpghy.com

Hi Donatello,

I hope I am not on your list!

Stephen

 

[garageman]

You're absolutly right! That's why I never talked about some sort of "laziness", as you seem to claim I did. As to your "generalization" comment, I disagree, of course, since I clearly mentionned there were many many exceptions Basically, I just said I sometimes had the IMPRESSION many (NOT ALL: since I said all the people I personaly know and all the people I meet over here) europeans (myself included, probably... at least, sometimes) need a little more "drive", "enthousiasm" and "positive energy".

But these are nothing but impressions: not facts! As a matter of fact, I have been living quite a while in northern California (working as an engineer for a "very large internet startup", during the bubble-days) and thus, I think you can understand where I am coming from. Back then, I was surrounded by people who knew what these words --"think positive", "think different"-- really meant. Now, I'm back home, in rainy Belgium... spending a few minutes here and there arguing with bitter french people on an infamous forum. But let me tell you again: I spend most of my time working with great people (directors, producers, actors, musicians and other professional artists) coming from all over Europe... It's just that I have the impression I am very lucky to know many "positive minded people", for I have the impression these are rather the exception than the rule! If you don't know what I am talking about, if don't know why I dared to use the word "zombie" (which doesn't mean "lazy", BTW), I would be very pleased if you could come one day over Brussels (or over Paris, for that matter) and sit in a public transport for 5 minutes. Or better yet: try to talk about some sort of "non-Sony" video-camera on the "Repaire". I could give you many other exemples, but one thing I am willing to bet is that eventually, you will definitly understand where my impressions are coming from

But as a matter of fact, impressions are just impressions and you certainly don't have to call me "narrow minded" because of my impressions. Impressions are, by definition, highly subjective. You'd be right to call me "narrow minded" though if I claimed these were facts... It's as if I said "I don't really like the taste of oranges", and you'd reply me: "well, this is very narrow minded of you to say that oranges taste like s..t, since many oranges are delicious"

Well, claiming subjectivity is an easy excuse for one's utterances, impressions are facts too but I'll refrain from semantic philosophy for now. I've been in Brussels, Paris and plenty other European and American cities and on a basic level most people are the same, pessimistic in the short run but optimistic in the long run. Just don't fall into the political spin of "old Europe/new Europe BS, it doesn't exist on the level of genuine ordinary people.

If you talk to people in any established industry they wil have prejudices of some sort, we are all creatures of habit liable to take the path of least resistance, I've done it myself many times.
I believe people are not "exceptions" but have moments when they make exceptional choices, some many more than others. I'm sure there are plenty of film-camera people who hate the idea of using digital cameras but who may eventually make the choice of "exception" and take the leap of faith into digital cinema but they will also be influenced by the market. I too was in this very position a few years ago.

 

[Barend Onneweer]

I'm no moderator on this forum, and don't claim to have any such authority. But here's my personal thought on the spin on this thread.

I'd love to see reduser.net be a knowledgebase about the development of Red products, and how to use them. Sharing honest thoughts, speculations and soon experiences.

The signal to noise ratio of this place is seriously threatened (in my personal opinion) by the continuous verbal battles between skeptics and fanboys, that contain no useful information whatsoever (again, in my personal opinion).

This very thread is a good example of this. The thread starts with a dubious post from a 'non-believer', and at the moment of writing has 7 pages of fanboys ranting about things that are "so not about this camera". There's a very strong tendency to make the tone religious, which personally I find in very bad taste.

I've got a reservation for a Red One and a zoom, and I have great confidence that Jim will pull this one off. But why do some people need to create an "us versus them"? I'm guessing it might be a matter of low self-esteem, and if you look at history nothing good ever came from creating such a "mutual enemy".

So I propose that we try to keep reduser.net dedicated to discussions about the use of current and future Red products.

Barend

 

[vanguy]

My only concern is that the Genuine Seeker not be railroaded off the site.

But I don't think that's the quality of people here.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I hope I'm not on that list either. I've uttered the phrase 'extremely unlikely' more than my share of times. Of course I didn't know they were going to develop a new codec too, so that's my excuse...

 

[Matthew Greene]

I'm lucky enough to know that when you get a group of brilliant and passionate people together nothing is impossible.

I design things that make people fly, and things dissapear for a living. Believe me there is always a method to the impossible.

 

[garageman]

No one can really complain about a product they don't actually have in their hands. This is a site for information and development about a future product which some of us have tentatively invested in, we can speculate and doubt all we want but we cannot criticise something we don't actually have.

Those of us who would choose to no longer believe can easily go and get our money back if we have invested any

When some of us do get our hands on RED then we can really shout for joy or whatever else.

 

[Jason Francois]

Apparently Cirrus have a personal Jet in the works too. Really must get my wings...

Thanks guys. Honda has one out in the $4 million range, but I'm still just learning. I will start to devour this type of research like I do with RED.

I'm just starting to research getting my pilots license and how many years it will take to be able to pilot small jets.

Maybe I can get my license so that I can transport myself around with the RED camera.

 

[Joe Carney]

humor/
arkham, maybe the French are upset because they didn't invent it? I'm still looking for a French citizen that actually like or at least tolerates Americans.
For the whiners, they will just find something else to complain about, no matter how good the RED is. In fact, they will complain about how GOOD the RED is, thats' it, hehehe.
/humor

ElCurado, I know an American Independent film maker who lived, filmed and sometimes taught in Italy, mainly Rome. He said the problem wasn't the students, but lazy, inept administration just trying to collect a paycheck and protect their turf. He said that was true of many of the Euro film schools and boards and other established institutions.
They stifle the ones trying to break out. But they're finding a way to do what they want anyway. So...
Stay strong and resolute and pursue your dreams. Do what ever it takes to make the movie you want. Better to ask forgiveness than permission.

But what do I know, I'm just another American middle aged fat man. hehehe

 

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

impressions are facts too

Hum! Please allow me to disagree with this If I say (that's just an example: I don't believe this) I have the impression the earth is flat, for if I look the horizon, it looks pretty flat to me, would you say I'm telling some sort of facts? Would you keep claiming subjectivity is just a "cheap excuse"! Quite the oposite in fact: I admit I could be wrong! What else would you like me to say? Does that sound dramatically dishonest to you? "I COULD BE WRONG! I'm a simple human being!" Do you think I'm lying here? Do you think I'm trying to manipulate the truth? Do you think I am arrogant, "narrow minded", manipulative by using "cheap excuses" in claiming my own humanity and my own right to make mistakes?

on a basic level most people are the same, pessimistic in the short run but optimistic in the long run

That wasn't my impression, but you're probably right! But this won't change my own impressions, so let's stop arguing about this

Just don't fall into the political spin of "old Europe/new Europe BS

Sorry if I gave you that impression, for that wasn't my intention! I hate politics and I really don't trust ANY politician, no matter where they come from. I just happen to live in a special part of Europe which is very different from where you live, and I just feel, no matter what you may think about my personal feelings, that many people over here are a little too much on the "let's play it very very very safe" side of things! To give you an example, the region I come from received the same amount of money for 10 years from the EC for its "economic development" than your entire country. End result: nothing! Billions of Euros of wasted money and we're still suffering one of the highest unemployment rate of the world. Zero entrepreneurial spirit! Half of the population is either employed by the government or is simply... unemployed. Actually, we're even worse than before we got the money from the EC... Don't ask me why... You, the Irish people, you have definitly made a much better use of the money you've received, and that's a fact, not on impression of mine! So why would you try to convice me I'm just "narrow minded?"

Again, I don't blame you for your own impressions which are of course, the opposite of mine! Different countries, different experiences, different cultures, different lives! But why would YOU claim to hold the Truth with a capital T? Are you a super-Human of some sort?

we are all creatures of habit liable to take the path of least resistance, I've done it myself many times.

So did I! That doesn't mean I don't know the "path of least resistance" is very likely to be the wrong one...

I'm sure there are plenty of film-camera people who hate the idea of using digital cameras

It's funny you mention this, for I have been an ardent proponent of film vs digi-beta for a documentary in Antartica and the very same people (the "French whiners, who claim all the "Red Customers" are "stupid, gullible and foolish amateurs") I complain about, the very same people you actually try to defend by calling me "narrow minded", these people told me how "ridiculous and stupid" I was because I thought I'd rather choose "top quality super16mm" for shooting that documentary rather than Digi-Beta... No comment

Bottom line: I LOVE film! But I also believe RED is gonna be good enough for me to forget about my beloved "35mm"!

 

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

I'm still looking for a French citizen that actually like or at least tolerates Americans.

I'm sure there are some, just as I really appreciate Americans. That doesn't mean I do appreciate everything you -or your decision makers- do, but I try to be "fair and balanced" and I have to admit we do have many things to learn from you guys!

Again, thanks to the Red Team for showing the world again how great the enterpreneurial spirit can be! The whole world needs more people like you guys!

 

[GlennChan]

Hum! Please allow me to disagree with this If I say (that's just an example: I don't believe this) I have the impression the earth is flat, for if I look the horizon, it looks pretty flat to me, would you say I'm telling some sort of facts? Would you keep claiming subjectivity is just a "cheap excuse"! Quite the oposite in fact: I admit I could be wrong!


To go on a digression here, I would disagree with the example (although I'd agree the argument behind it). If you think about it, the earth is only slightly curved (over a really big distance). That curve (or lack of) is too small to judge by the naked eye, so you can't really tell if the earth is flat or slightly curved.

In other aspects though, our senses can be wrong. For example, what we see is not accurate due to metamerism, atmospheric effects (i.e. mirages in the desert), etc. We also sometimes hallucinate (even when not on drugs), confuse dreams with reality, etc.

Anyways, I digress. Back to Red....

 

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

That curve (or lack of) is too small to judge by the naked eye, so you can't really tell if the earth is flat or slightly curved.

Exactly! And this is precisely why my example was valid after all, for the amount of people I really know is way too small for me to judge whether people over here really are the way I sometimes think "most of them" are It's all about sampling and extrapolation based upon that sampling, in fact, just to get back to our electonician language and to the typical Red discussion

PS I'm gonna stop digressing too, for I'll be accused to "cheat in order to artificially inflate my Posts' number"

PS 2: HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL OF YOU! (even the non-believers )

 

[Corrado Silveri]

Stay strong and resolute and pursue your dreams. Do what ever it takes to make the movie you want. Better to ask forgiveness than permission.

But what do I know, I'm just another American middle aged fat man. hehehe

Thanks, Zeke. I'm trying.
But what do I know, I'm just another Italian middle aged not-so-fat man. hehehe

Corrado.

 

[PaulClements]

Man I wish I hadn't read this thread... what a waste of my time, infact why the hell am I writing a response heheheh

 

[Emanuel A.]

ElCurado, I know an American Independent film maker who lived, filmed and sometimes taught in Italy, mainly Rome.

Are you talking about Jost, right Joe? ;-)

 

[RayFrisby]

This is my first and last post on the real or imagined, will it or wont it materialise debate, as I fell them ultimately pointless and a waste of creative and emotional energy. These questions are universal and at the heart of any new undertaking, whether it was Ernest Shackelton’s adventures to the South Poll to the Lumieri brothers first few tentative feet of magic. In the end all pursuits come down to a few simple questions, do you hope, believe and trust the story this person is telling you. When I see the people on board, the time spent, andt he reputations on the line I have no doubt these people are genuine, I have no doubt they are committed. Do I doubt the outcome, everything in a new venture (life) is uncertain and up for grabs, but do I trust these guys to push themselves and not to give in to uncertainty? Yes!!

 

[Joe Carney]

Are you talking about Jost, right Joe? ;-)

Yes, my son interned with him back in 2001 when he still lived in Rome. He's teaching in the States now, but goes back frequently. He's made a few more films since then.

Joe C.

 

[samuel33]

make up your mind

make up your mind

humor/
arkham, maybe the French are upset because they didn't invent it? I'm still looking for a French citizen that actually like or at least tolerates Americans.

that's sooooooooooo stupid dude.....


I'm french iknow this french forum "le repaire" contrary to what was said there are people there who believe in Red. In fact the problem is that many french doesn't speak a good english or doesn't go often on dvxuser.
Is it why I -and others- translate news from here to them.
So there is a lot of french people intrested in REd even in the "repaire".....