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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED and flash photography...

J

Jim Arthurs

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Trying to sell a client in January on using the RED; the scenero is a limo/red carpet arrival scene with lots of flash photography strobes going off.

Question... is there any sort of easy/cheap way to sync up the dozen or so still cameras flash units to the RED to avoid the half-frame issue? While I personally don't mind the look of the one or two odd half-frame flash exposures, the whole spot is this sort of rapid fire flash footage and I don't want to risk it.

Regards
 
Yes, we intend to do some testing. However, some things from a budgeting standpoint need to get rolling right now and I was hoping someone had already shot in this sort of situation and had a clever solution.

The fall back plan is an F900.
 
It's an issue with rolling shutters in general... here's a link...

http://www.redhax.net/wiki/Understanding_Rolling_Shutter_Artifacts

In my case, I can't see a dozen still cameras all physically linked to some controller, as the various talent is moving around all the time and will be seen in wide shots.

I suppose some level of this can be faked with slower flashing interactive lighting and doing the necessary roto/comp work, which I have the ability to do, but not willingly, if it can be avoided.
 
Disclaimer: this is an idle speculation. I haven't tried anything like this.

Idea: You may not need physical connections or a central controller. All you need is for the flashes to happen within the Red's "shutter fully open" window which occurs every 1/24 second (if you run at that rate). If that window is large enough, a stand-alone sync box on each flash unit ought to maintain sync for long enough to do some takes.

I don't know if such a thing exists but if you had a budget I think it could be created easily enough. The circuit is not complicated in principle. You just have a black box between each still camera and associated flash unit, it has one input for the camera trigger and one output going to the flash. Also, a sync input for initial setup. The box has a stable clock inside which is initially sync'd to the Red. During the take, this box takes each flash trigger from the camera and delays flash output until the next "flash ok window", within the next 1/24 sec. Of course the actual still photos would then be unlit by the flash, but I assume you don't care about that.

One number I don't know, which would indicate how practical this might be, is how long the "flash ok window" actually is. If it's milliseconds you have a good chance of maintaining sync on your free-running boxes for a decent interval. If it's just microseconds, that's a lot harder.
 
Don't use a 360˚ shutter, it'll make it look like a video camera. I echo Mark's sentiments if the time/budget allows for it.

That said, I've used lightning strikes and flashes with the RED with no sort of syncing. If there's enough ambient lighting to keep the flashes from truly dominating, the half frames aren't awful.
 
Would love to see an example of flashes done in post. I can't see how it would be anywhere near as effective as an on set flash would be regarding, first, actors reaction and second , to be visually true.
Sometimes these scenes are shot by having the extras using prop camera flashes in shot and syncing doesn't seem feasible.
I would do tests and see if its visually a problem not a just , looking at a still from the scene shot, problem where the still shows a half frame flash but in motion unnoticeable. I would also consider doing several takes with the flash if you do not want to shoot with an open shutter and then just for safeties sake do several takes without the flashes if worst case scenario is you have do it in post.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions guys... I hate the idea of doing it in post because I know how hard it is to do it right, what with interactive lighting and all. I'm personally the "end of the line" and if I yell "fix it in post" when wearing my DP hat, I've only passed the buck to myself!

Still, we can't have a bunch of cables coming down the leg of each of the 12 or so talent, so something has to give. Someday, someone with more budget than we have will have to face a shooting scenerio with a gaggle of photogs at a red carpet or at a runway environment and an on-set solution will be needed.

Back in the day, as a wee high school lad shooting Super-8, I remember rigging the bulbs from those 4 shot flash cubes up to a lower than rated voltage so they'd flash with a longer duration for my lazer gun hits and the like.
 
What is the time period that the Flash piece is set?

I love the old (for motion film) slow burn bulbs... I suspect this will not do.. But perhaps a flash expert can produce slow flash (in a modern unit) that takes you beyond the problem..

I can perhaps ask around if your desperate?

regards

Michael
 
Michael Lindsay said:
What is the time period that the Flash piece is set?

I love the old (for motion film) slow burn bulbs... I suspect this will not do.. But perhaps a flash expert can produce slow flash (in a modern unit) that takes you beyond the problem..

I can perhaps ask around if your desperate?

regards

Michael
Click to expand...

Thanks, but it's modern, and the visual goal is flashes going off as fast as possible from multiple directions and angles. You know, very "red carpet" and runway.

I've got a week or so to experiment before things will have to be cemented into place, so I'll let you guys know if I figure something out!

Regards
 
If you're going for the multi-flash red carpet look, maybe the rolling shutter artifacts will not be noticeable because there are so many flashes in a short period of time. Do a test and show your client what it looks like. Maybe it won't matter to them. I think people are used to seeing it on the tabloid shows and award shows.
 
Hi Jim

Like I am sure you are well aware every camera has its strengths and weaknesses. Flashes seem to be an item near the top of the list that is a red limitation. To me a red seems like the wrong choice for this specific project. With as fast as things move on set dealing with multiple synced flash cameras that hopefully stays synced throughout the day could cause you to pull out your hair.

Sounds to me like shooting this with a red may become a painful endevour.
 
Well if you set the practical flash units (the props in the scene) to manual, instead of auto, then their flash durations will be pretty long. If you have a bunch of these things going off in the scene then you will get some of them and the light they produce. You can also rent a couple of flash paddles from a prop house and use flash bulbs since their duration is very long, position them just off camera for effect.

You could also do as suggested above and open the shutter more and shoot the shot like this and then shoot it regular and then you have a choice. I don't think you will get any different results with a F900 at 24fps since the shutter open duration is similar. There is the tendency to over tech this and sometime just going for it will produce great results. Soft Sun also makes a paparazzi unit that works well for this kind of thing.
 
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