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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red #88 For Sale - Portland, OR

Kingsly said:
Very interested, sent you an e-mail.

Confused by these sentences, though, which seem contradictory:

To deal with warranty issues, the sale will be structured as a one-year rent-to-own, with full payment required upon initial delivery. This means the camera will effectively be yours when you get it...

...I would definitely be open to some combination that includes a similar arrangement with a serial numbered Red reservation. Or you could just rent it for a year and then give her back to me.
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Sorry for the confusion. It sounds contradictory because it is. They are two distinct, possible scenarios - buy, or rent. I prefer the latter and will somehow try to rank those offers accordingly.

I think this will be over by Friday so you could take ownership this weekend.
 
DanK said:
Sorry for the confusion. It sounds contradictory because it is. They are two distinct, possible scenarios - buy, or rent. I prefer the latter and will somehow try to rank those offers accordingly.
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Ah. Thanks for specifying!


I think this will be over by Friday so you could take ownership this weekend.
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Hopefully I will! :biggrin:
 
I've decided to hold off on a decision through the weekend, and possibly into early next week. Please do not waste our time negotiating a deal and then demanding concessions on issues I've stated in the first post. The titanium Red is non-negotiable. I cannot send the camera unless payment has been completely verified. If you have an issue with a wire-transfer/cash payment method, if you cover the associated fees, we can:

- go through escrow.com
- I can post on my eBay account with a Buy-It-Now and we can close the transaction through there
- Shawn Nelson will do a pre-purchase inspection (PPI)

Or any combination of the above. I cannot send by mail unless I open the boxes to verify everything is in there. These precautions especially apply to buyers who are not established members of this forum - not necessarily a bad thing, after all, I'm one of them - and we should both feel comfortable with the transaction.

Thanks
 
Kingsly - none of the negative comments above are referring to you, if that's what the post looks like.
 
Dan, have you verified with Red about whether your idea of letting someone else purchase your Red, but technically be "renting it" to allow you to still get service? They are a very tiny company and they have undoubtedly read this thread. It seems they could disallow you service by declaring this trick null and void. Or, they could go ahead and allow the new owner direct service. Or finally, they may not care and could go along with it.
 
Assuming the paperwork was handled correctly I can't see how they could chose not to honour the warranty. They would be legally obliged if title hadn't been reassigned, even if they saw it as a "trick". Something to bear in mind is Reds motivations for making the warranty non-transferrible. I am sure they don't want to go out of their way to piss people off, just to discourage speculation.

M
 
The way Daniel is handling this seems pretty fair and honest to Red so I don't see why they would make any problem with this transaction.
It's really not like he had reserved 5 reds and was selling all of them asking for twice the price.
Arnaud
 
"intent " plays big in many legal cases ... not sure how it plays in rent/leasing to get around warranty ??? i'd say just have a good contract/agreement that doesn't have the intent of only trying to get around warranty issue ...
 
DanK said:
Kingsly - none of the negative comments above are referring to you, if that's what the post looks like.
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No worries. I'm glad you're making everything very clear to whoever ends up being the buyer. I've sold way too much stuff on the internet and it's always more trouble that it's worth... :blush:

I hope you and Brent can reach an agreement, me want RED! :tongue:
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Dan, have you verified with Red about whether your idea of letting someone else purchase your Red, but technically be "renting it" to allow you to still get service? They are a very tiny company and they have undoubtedly read this thread. It seems they could disallow you service by declaring this trick null and void. Or, they could go ahead and allow the new owner direct service. Or finally, they may not care and could go along with it.
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I haven't spoken with Red to discuss the warranty. But it is a gray area - and a carefully-worded rental contract should be fine. If anyone from Team Red PMs, posts, or emails me otherwise, I'll make adjustments to the offer accordingly. Let me know what it would cost to buy a 1-year re-certified product warranty (in addition to the evaluation fee of $500), and I'll state it so buyers can consider it in their offers.

I have NO desire to piss Red off - looks like I'll be putting down another reservation for a camera soon, and it's certainly not worth it to get blacklisted or on their sh*tlist.
 
Thanks for the PMs/emails on this issue folks.

I'm not going to contact Red about the selling-but-technically-renting issue because it's a silly question to ask. It's clearly a gray issue, and as long as they have the non-transferability clause in their terms, it doesn't make sense for Red to publicly say they don't care even if they don't.

What I was addressing in my last post is the product warranty if the buyer insists on having legal title and warranty rights in their name for the first year. I'll find out this cost from Red, report it here, and the buyer will have the option to go this route also. Otherwise, the deal will be structured as stated in the original post.

Personally I would be really surprised if Red cared about any of this. They make cameras. They make a camera, it breaks within a year (due to a manufacturing issue), they should fix it. Who cares who owns it? Yes, I know, they do apparently, because they list "non-transferable" on their website. But in principle - ownership issues aside - it's less than a year old, it should get fixed. What difference does it make if I give it to my daughter-in-law, and then it breaks? What if I sold it to my brother? What if someone bought it, it broke, then sold it back to me, but within the warranty period? Could I get service, since I'm still the Original Buyer, as stated in their terms? This is stupid. Does Red care? Probably not.

Red's too busy making cameras to worry about the petty affairs of a who-owns-what wording issue. Real warranty issues will be the guy who drops his Red in a lake and tries to hide the fact when telling them "it just stopped working". Red has shown they provide solid support on a great camera. After the upgrade, i don't expect there to be build quality problems with it, and that's why I'm willing to work with the buyer on support issues, as I'm betting there will be relatively few. But my guess is, Red won't care who it comes from.

Either way, I'll work with the buyer to handle any problems that come up.
 
Anyway, the reason I hopped on tonight was to announce that #88 will be listed on eBay starting tomorrow in a 3-day auction that should end around 5pm PST Monday. There will be no Buy It Now option, and the opening bid will be $.01

I'll run it as a private auction. It'll be on a family account that's been around forever and with a ton of feedback, and you can contact me through there, but the best way to reach me will still be at my khoodck@gmail.com address instead of eBay's system.

I'd rather keep everything on the down low and not feed the eBay juggernaut, but I'm just spending too much time on this. Since I'm still pursuing a true rental agreement, I reserve the right to end the auction up to an hour before the auction closes - I think that's ok, sellers on eBay Motors have similar clauses with their automobiles.

Once the auction goes up, I'll edit the first post to update the terms according to what's been going on in this thread and will link the auction to here.
 
Arno said:
Daniel; are you sure you want to take the ebay route? You know that they are going to charge you more than a thousand for selling thru them.
Arnaud
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Really? Assuming it goes for 25K, it looks like the fees will be just under $500. It's the Paypal fees that bring the total over $1K. Unless the fee calculator website I'm using is wrong...
 
DanK said:
Really? Assuming it goes for 25K, it looks like the fees will be just under $500. It's the Paypal fees that bring the total over $1K. Unless the fee calculator website I'm using is wrong...
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Don't worry about it.. Selling big-ticket items on ebay is a good way to go because their fees are very low. check out http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html to see. Not including your listing fees, ebay will take $344.94 if your RED kit sells for $20,000. For simplicity in calculating, hopefully you would do a bit better than that.
 
Hey Daniel

I'm with you on this. I also think that the warranty must always be with the latest owner. This is just normal business practis. Everything else is just strange and not good for the RED users. We REDusers should/must have this flexebility.

Cheers
Tim
 
Yes Daniel; you're right, that's the paypal fees that add up to the ebay and bring it over 1000$; I almost always use paypal when I buy or sell on ebay so I assumed wrongly you were going to do the same. Sorry for the confusion.
Arnaud
 
Ugh, fine Jeff...3 times retail! Anyone crazy enough to pay that rumored amount has a sickness I'd have no choice but to feed.

But you mentioned that earlier, and I really wonder - is that a deal-breaker for a lot of people? I figured those who desperately want Reds now value it as a production tool, and while it would be nice to have, the medallion is ultimately just a piece of metal. If you were such a fanboy that you wanted it, you would've put in your pre-1080 reservation when they were open. Anyway, that's all my justification for keeping it, so it doesn't really matter whether it's right or wrong :tongue:
 
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