Red #88 For Sale - Portland, OR

[Daniel K]

* The camera won't include the new adjustable lens mount.

Jeff, unless I'm mistaken, the adjustable lens mount you're referring to will also be upgraded along with the daughterboard upgrade/recall. Doubt anyone in the world would want to, but the winner is more than welcome to hold off on taking possession until the upgrade is done.

I'll get back to emails by tonight at the latest. Please avoid PMs for offers as it makes it harder to keep track of everyone. I've answered all other thread questions by PM if they don't directly contribute to the discussion.

 

[Stephen Williams]

Wait a sec, why can't you sell your Red free and clear and transfer the warranty? If I go buy a 2006 Ford Explorer, I get the remaining 3-4 years on the warranty.

Red needs to support a robust second market for these.

Hi Shawn,

Red wants to sell 5000+ new cameras a year.

Stephen

 

[Roberto B]

hey stephen.. why don't you think to buy this one?.. you could add your angie.. and you'd be the first member of cinematography.com rocking ala/such as true indie..

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jeff, unless I'm mistaken, the adjustable lens mount you're referring to will also be upgraded along with the daughterboard upgrade/recall. Doubt anyone in the world would want to, but the winner is more than welcome to hold off on taking possession until the upgrade is done.

Perhaps it will be. I don't know, I guess I'm not sure on that one. Hopefully that is the case.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

While we're at it, Jim just confirmed the 6 months is an error and the RED One does in fact carry a 12 month warranty.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5547

 

[Brook Willard]

If the camera got into the right hands, it'd pay for itself in two months. I'd go for it if I had the money.

Assuming it's all legit.

The warranty skirting thing isn't the best idea in the world... considering a handful of RED employees have certainly read this thread.

 

[Joel Kaye]

If the camera got into the right hands, it'd pay for itself in two months. I'd go for it if I had the money.

Assuming it's all legit.

The warranty skirting thing isn't the best idea in the world... considering a handful of RED employees have certainly read this thread.

The warranty should really transfer. I don't understand a policy like that from a company like RED. I sold my old Mac with a 3 year extended warranty and it transferred. That guy just put it on eBay and it will transfer again.

 

[Finner]

If the camera got into the right hands, it'd pay for itself in two months. I'd go for it if I had the money.

You and all those porno's you shoot sure make a lot of $$$ Brook!

 

[Daniel K]

The buyer has the option, for $200, to have Shawn Nelson, Portland's resident Red expert, do a pre-purchase inspection of the camera and accessories. This means he'll open both boxes and verify everything is inside and working properly. Pictures will mark the event. And in this case, I wouldn't bother coming to you, unless I was delivering.

(I'm also putting this information in the first post, for the newcomers)

 

[Tim Lüdin]

Hey Shawn you are totaly right.
The warranty must change with the new owner.
We all love our REDs but you never know what's going to happen in the next 12 month. Maybe someone has to sell the RED because of money problems or other things.

I would never buy an early RED without a warranty. Maybe end of next year when RED is super stable and rock solid then you could easily buy one without a warranty.

This policy has to be changed. The RED customer should have this kind of flexebility. I mean, if I sell my new powermac to my friend, he will have the remaining warranty. That's the way it works with all goods I ever purchased.

So RED should be as customer friendly as possible here. I don't think there will be a big black market. 99% of us will keep our REDs I'm totaly sure of that.

Cheers
Tim

 

[Martin Drew]

I tend to agree. I can't see the value to Red long term of hamstringing the warranty, it will just increase depreciation. I can see the logic behind it but I think it sends the wrong message.

M

 

[Andrew M.]

I remember early discussion about it and my impression was that the warranty is not transferable since there is $2500 credit for early adopters so it is kind of mild discouragement for people to book 100 of REDs and cash on 250K of credits.
Kind of difficult and touchy situation now, to recognize legitimate financial/logistic necessity to sell the camera and just purchase with resale business in mind.
I don’t think Jims intention was to give $2500 early adopters discount to people that wants to resale RED cameras, though I see nothing wrong with it. Risk taking and ingenuity should be reworded not punished.

 

[Stephen Williams]

hey stephen.. why don't you think to buy this one?.. you could add your angie.. and you'd be the first member of cinematography.com rocking ala/such as true indie..

Hi Filmakers gang

I am waiting for prices to fall, hopefully Ebay will be flooded by February.

Stephen

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

This is just the beginning...

I think with the next couple camera shipments we'll be seeing people with reservations for multiple cameras selling off the ones they don't want/need, thinking they can demand a nice profit for them. In reality, I think most camera bodies are going to sell for 10% less than the $17.5K due to the warranty issue. And of the initial 1000 or so, I think a lot of buyers are going to want that Titanium R to complete the deal.

My advice to people thinking of selling their camera -- especially if their #500 and higher. Don't. If you're not going to keep the camera and use it, don't buy it from RED in the first place. It will be a much better financial decision in the long run. But if you don't believe me, then I wish you luck.

...I'm seriously thinking of passing on my reservation and just picking up a second-hand RED early next year. They're going to be available and should save me 10-15%.

 

[Seung Han]

I think you guys are right, the delays in the schedule and also the non-transferable warranty will not help Red in the long run as reality sinks in for many res holders. The flood of rentals and also used cameras for lower prices will give many pause before they actually pony up the remaining balance.

No matter how you cut it, technology moves forward and prices drop.

With that being said, I can't wait to get my hands on one...

 

[Michael Hastings]

$2500 "discount" and the warranty

$2500 "discount" and the warranty

I remember early discussion about it and my impression was that the warranty is not transferable since there is $2500 credit for early adopters so it is kind of mild discouragement for people to book 100 of REDs and cash on 250K of credits.

Remember the $2500 was, at least in part, to take care of the fact that they changed - after the fact as far as res holders - the specs of what you got for the base price. I believe that originally the camera was to have an onboard LCD or viewfinder (and maybe even an onboard battery) and it would have been fairly reasonable for people to insist that a viewfinder or LCD was an essential part of a normal professional camera and therefore not subject to the "specs can change" caveat. By offering the discount, we res holders were given the opportunity to choose an external LCD (at a little lower cost) or the viewfinder (at a little higher cost). I think RED could have easily covered themselves by providing a half-assed LCD - instead I think they took the better route of offering a choice from two excellent solutions.

As far as the warranty issue, I think it is a bit unfair/unexpected and I have a little problem, but not a big problem with it. I don't think it will affect me since I plan on hanging onto the camera at least a year. It would be nice if it were changed, but it's not a deal killer so I won't be asking for my deposit back.

I think the warranty situation is in part designed to minimize price gouging and windfall profits in the initial stages and that seems fairly noble. I don't know the legality of it, but if it were legal, I would suggest that RED simply state that warranties would not be transferable until they are caught up with initial orders - say the first 2000 or so cameras.

 

[Greg M]

I believe that originally the camera was to have an onboard LCD or viewfinder (and maybe even an onboard battery) and it would have been fairly reasonable for people to insist that a viewfinder or LCD was an essential part of a normal professional camera and therefore not subject to the "specs can change" caveat.

Most professional cameras do not include a viewfinder as part of the base price (including the Varicam) and none include a LCD monitor. So it would not be "reasonable" for anyone to insist that they should have been included for free.

 

[Darwin]

Most professional cameras do not include a viewfinder as part of the base price (including the Varicam) and none include a LCD monitor. So it would not be "reasonable" for anyone to insist that they should have been included for free.

Wrong! The LCD was originally on the camera (part of the camera)

 

[Michael Hastings]

I disagree

I disagree

Most professional cameras do not include a viewfinder as part of the base price (including the Varicam) and none include a LCD monitor. So it would not be "reasonable" for anyone to insist that they should have been included for free.

I purchased a Panasonic RECAM in the early 80s - VF standard
Purchased BVW30 Betacam in 80s VF standard
Purchased BVW300A in 1990s VF standard
Purchased Three Ikegami DNS-201W in 2000s VF standard

A number of broadcast/professional cameras are sold now with both Viewfinders and LCDs, and virtually all prosumer cameras have both LCD and Viewfinders.

The fact that a few models do not have it standard is more a matter of they have a couple of choices - I would be surprised if the number of Varicams sold without viewfinders was more than 3 percent of total sales.


Nor does this change the fact that the info from RED included it. Jim was a smart enough businessman to know that that one wasn't going to fly as a ALL SPECIFICATIONS SUBJECT TO CHANGE item and came up with a good solution.

And Darwin is correct. (post #58)

 

[D. O'Bryan]

Very interested, sent you an e-mail.

Confused by these sentences, though, which seem contradictory.

To deal with warranty issues, the sale will be structured as a one-year rent-to-own, with full payment required upon initial delivery. This means the camera will effectively be yours when you get it...

...I would definitely be open to some combination that includes a similar arrangement with a serial numbered Red reservation. Or you could just rent it for a year and then give her back to me.