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Recomended monitors? 107% av adobe RGB good bad?

Joel Arvidsson

Joel Arvidsson

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Hi Im looking for a new monitor and been interested in a apple 24" LED but it's only has 8bit wich I guess is not so good when working in 12bit. Some monitors have 107% av adobe RGB which sounds good but I read some complains about these features.

Wich screens would you recomend to work with the scarlet footage? At the moment Im looking at:
Appel 24" 8bit LED or
NEC 26" MultiSync 2690WUXi2 svart wich has 107% Adobe RGB and 12bit.
 
Don't worry about 12-bit vs 8-bit yet, most graphics cards send out 8-bit/channel max and that's all dvi supports (well duallink DVI supports 10 bits theoretically). Some DisplayPort displays support 10bit/channel, but not all of them.
 
aha thanks Mikael. I looked at NEC 26" MultiSync 2690WUXi2 that is a 12bit monitor but after taking to NEC they told me its input is still 8bit but 12bit internal processing. So seams its like Tony says dont worry about it. If somebody have an monitor they recommend please post.
 
If you are connecting this monitor to a Mac, just be aware that there is NO SUPPORT for bit depths greater than 8bpc (24bit) on the OS GDI. The only way to get greater than 8bpc is through a proprietary interface like the AJA, Decklink or RED ROCKET cards to a monitor not driven by the OS GDI.

Go look at some monitors and see what you like. Find one with good controls and pick up an eye-one or Spyder3 for calibration. If you want to do color grading or serious color correction, then you should look into getting a plasma or LED HDTV panel with the proper HDMI and/or SDI interface that can be driven from an AJA, Decklink or RED ROCKET card.
 
Thanks for the info Jeff. I have an AJA KONA LHE an Panny pro plasma but my monitor have passed its best days. Im interested in the RED Rocket™ but I don't understand if I can output directly from it without an breakout box. Do you get a cable based breakout box for it? If you have a RED Rocket™ do you really need a AJA Kona 3? Anyway the RED Rocket™ will have to wait for its budget. New monitor and some extra lights and Scarlet is prio 1!
 
The graphics subsystem on OS X is 32bit float/channel. Graphics card drivers downsample this to 8 bit/channel on output. This is not a limitation of the OS, as the Quadro 4800 card is able to output 10bits in grayscale on OS X, but not in full color because it only has duallink DVI ports.
 
One more thing. 107% Adobe RGB is that more good use for print or is it better (supposed to not having it) for working with red footage aswell?
 
Tony de Vries said:
The graphics subsystem on OS X is 32bit float/channel. Graphics card drivers downsample this to 8 bit/channel on output. This is not a limitation of the OS, as the Quadro 4800 card is able to output 10bits in grayscale on OS X, but not in full color because it only has duallink DVI ports.
Click to expand...

It's not a limitation of the ports... Dual link DVI can support up to 12bits/channel. DisplayPort and HDMI can as well, but are more commonly 10bit at this point. However, there are no cards for OSX that currently support 10bit output over DisplayPort or HDMI either.

You're correct that the graphics system on OS X is 32bit float/channel. Unfortunately, Apple writes the majority of the drivers and fails to take advantage of anything more than 8bpc+alpha on any of their drivers. And to make things worse, most GDI functions are still only operable in 8bpc RGB.

The point I was making is that just because the hardware and core OS components pretend to support fantastical color depth, doesn't mean that it's actually available.

Even within Windows, where we are finally starting to see support for bit depths > 8bpc over HDMI and DisplayPort on some cards, it's relatively few and far between on various products. Technically all of the nVidia GeForce 200 series and every Quadro since the FX4500 is capable of 10bits/channel or better. Do they use it? Even with nVidia writing the drivers? No. They liek to advertise it as a possible future capability though. And it's even worse on the Mac. I still shake my head at how amazingly bad the OSX drivers for the GTX 285 are.

@ Joel,

More range or a wider color gamut is a good thing. Take all you can get. You're going to get an 8 bit signal out of the computer, but that isn't a bad thing. It can still stretch to fill the gamut of the display through proper calibration.

You can output from the RED ROCKET via DVI and SDI/HD-SDI. If you want HDMI output, you will need to buy the breakout box and HDMI has not yet been enabled with the current firmware. Currently, output from the ROCKET only happens through REDCINE-X and ROCKETCINE. But that should change as more developers start incorporating functions. The latest version of clipfinder may have monitor out support from the ROCKET, I'm not sure. You may or may not need a Kona card, depending on your workflow. Most people I know who are working in Final Cut Studio are still working in ProRes. And the Kona3 is a great choice there. Do a one-light color and ProRes-4444 output from REDCINE-X using the Rocket and then work as usual in FCS, utilizing the Kona card for monitoring and other functions.

Same would work with the Kona LHE or LHI as they are the Kona 3's little brothers. You really only need the Kona 3 if you also need to capture other HD sources or will be regular connecting to other HD recorders, VTRs, etc..
 
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Wow, a super-thank-you for the info Jeff!!

Nec have the MultiSync and the Spectra View. Spectra View have hardware calibration but I dont know if its much better. Now Im leaning against the multisync. Any last inputs is very appricated! Im planing to order one this week./Joel
 
No problem.

Also, I should add to the above for those reading about the RED ROCKET info. The Rocket can currently send HDMI out via a DVI to HDMI adapter or cable, but it is limited to 8bit there as well. 10bit over HDMI from the ROCKET will be supported in the near future. I'm buying the ROCKET BOB as soon as that feature goes live.
 
How many here is working with wide gammut monitors? I have ordered an Nec Spectra view 2690 but im nerves since i never had an wide gammut monitor before. I hope that fcp, shake, nuke and red cinex will display correct colors and not oversaturated.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
More range or a wider color gamut is a good thing. Take all you can get. You're going to get an 8 bit signal out of the computer, but that isn't a bad thing. It can still stretch to fill the gamut of the display through proper calibration.
Click to expand...

High Jeff I got the monitor late yesterday. I calibrate with spectraview profiler that is the best way to calibrate this monitor since its has hardware calibration. I use a xrite i1Display 2 as a sensor. I calibrated it in d65 with a tonal responsecurv of gamma 2.2 (you cant select any colorspace for the calibration. I dont know the exakt brightness in he editing room (cd/m2) but i used 160 (was recomended to 160-180) for the calibration.

I got the one problem I was afraid of. Fcp, shake and nuke all displays superred and supergreen. This must mean they dont listen to my icc profile! Everything shows up good on the plasma using aja. But i want to look at my monitor when i finish for webb and the plasma when i finish for tv. Any ideas?

Seams like redcine accepts the icc profile. I cant se superred threre. I only looked fast in it with the pooltable shot thoe.
 
anybody used the colorsymmetry plugins? Seam like you can use icc profiles in more programs.
 
Just wanted to tell I switch to an non wide monitor instead. Im going to wait for the software programmers to catch up with the widegammut screens. Hope we se some nice 4k displays by that time!!!

cheers
Joel Arvidsson
:closed2ur0:
 
I have done some research about wide gamut monitors and some people say it can be a hassle to get your images/videos to look the same in various applications. Some applications that use color profiles, such as Photoshop, will show great colors on wide gamut monitor, but other applications, which are not responding to color profiles such as Adobe RGB 1998, will show very inaccurate colors for the same image. Even more inaccurate than standard sRGB - colors tend to be too saturated. There is no way to simply switch the monitor to sRGB, it is defaulted to adobe RGB 1998. I can only believe that RED software doesn't work Adobe RGB 1998 and thus I would suspect that colors will be inaccurate. For this reason I bougth NEC top of the line 24" monitor, (http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=29d41c3a-c07c-4dda-a199-13b8823de971), which is not wide gamut monitor, but has great color performance. I cannot see full gamut of Adobe RGB 1998, but my final output is not MY monitor. :-)
 
I had the nec spectra view 2690 with wide gammut and photoshop and after effect recordnice my icc profile. Fcp, shake and nuke does not so they show super reds and green. If its not full adobe rgb you should be fine. My monitor is not my main refenrens either, but it is nice to have monitor with proper picture for when finishing to webb.

Here an interesting article that i found when I noticed that fcp and more didnt work as hoped.

http://www.artstorm.net/journal/2009/07/color-management-wide-gamut-dell-2408/

Might help some interested in buying a wide gammut screeen.


Cheers!
 
Just wanted to make mention...I'm also using the red rocket via DVI and MXO2 box that outputs HDMI out to my plasma tv. Of course it's an extra $500 to $1400 depending on the MXO you buy, however you get hdmi on the MXO2 regardless of which you choose and i can calibrate my plasma tv using MXO2.
 
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