Real frame rates...

[Peter Majtan]

... cost real money.

Jim

$500K.

Jim

According to the same logic - could we get the 617 EPIC for about $25K, if I only want it for stills - 1 FPS? I can't honestly see that many motion pictures to be shot on this "baby", not until a PETA-Byte is a household name in the industry... :blush: But I know quite a few folks who will buy it even if it was 1 FPS only, as they all want it for still photography - just like me...

PS1: I am not kidding. Is this possible?
PS2: I will still get it as it is - I am not complaining - just playing into the name of this thread...

 

[Steven Caesare]

I think people are GROSSLY underestimating what it takes to get framerates like these from sensors of these sizes, AND have the supporting electronics that fit within the size/power/thermal envelope necessary.

Seriously. The engineering on the new brains has been cranked up a bunch o' notches compared to the already-amazing Mysterium in R1.

-Steve

 

[Axel Mertes]

$500K.

Jim

Jim,

you aren't precise, nor was Martin Ludwig...

$500K for 500fps

Which real currency?
Which resolution?
Which codec?
Burst mode only, or direct to media - until its full?
Which media potentially?
Which recording time?

I need some answers on this to follow this thread.

Cheers,
Axel

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The action sequence in 300 was shot in 120fps

Several shots were quite a bit more than that. I actually found much of the overcranking in 300 to be a bit distracting, especially with the continuous ramping. As a whole, I liked the movie, but there were times when I was pulled from the story and I felt like I was watching a film made by a bunch of FX guys who were given free reign of a high speed camera and green screen studio... Oh wait, that pretty much is what happened.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Jim, would you please consider restoring 3K @ 60fps to Scarlet FF35?

Pretty please.

 

[Julio Quintana]

I'm a little confused about the reason for this thread. Is it a hint about another announcement? Or is it just a backlash at ungrateful Redusers?

 

[Ben Holmes]

Jim, would you please consider restoring 3K @ 60fps to Scarlet FF35?

Pretty please.

Wasn't this the point of this thread? If RED could realistically offer this for this money, they would. If they can't, you have to accept paying more.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think it's a reality check in a way... Not talking about high frame rates, although that's where the conversation has diverted itself. I think Jim is trying to point out that doing real frame rates with the whole of the sensor is a technical challenge and it costs money. 30fps on the whole of a 12megapixel chip does not come cheap. If you want super cheap, with a compromise in image quality when used for motion, there are such solutions out there.

 

[Daniel Browning]

Jim, would you please consider restoring 3K @ 60fps to Scarlet FF35?

Your secret is out now, Tom: this proves that you desire interlaced video. It's OK, the first step to recovery is to come out of denial.

 

[Steve Gibby]

In most markets the phrase "You get what you pay for" is the ruling mantra. Everyone who owns or has used a RED One camera has gotten unbelievably more than they paid for. The performance to price ratio of RED One is astronomically high. The performance to price ratio of the new DSMC line is even higher. No other camera equipment manufacturer, whether they make stills or motion cameras, can even remotely approach the performance to price ratio of RED's products.

I've suffered through over three decades of low performance to price ratio camera equipment. Those of you who are veterans know what I'm talking about. Those of you who are new to this industry, take my word on this.

We are living in exciting times in the stills and motion media industry - thanks to RED pushing the performance to price ratio envelope. With RED One we've all received a phenomenal amount more than we paid for - so how about if we just take a deep breath and really comprehend what advances RED is bringing to us with the new DSMC line.

Yes, real frame rates cost real dollars...and in the case of the DSMC line the performance to price ratio is already stunningly progressive.

In the lyrics of a well-known song: "Don't worry...be happy!"

I know I am...

 

[Mitch Gross]

If you guys only knew what it took to make a camera shoot extremely high frame rates...

I keep hearing people say "can't RED make a High Speed Brain" and then almost immediately follow it with "I wouldn't buy one myself, just rent it when I need to." One way RED is able to make products with lower price points is to have a certain expectation of volume in sales to offset the R&D. If relatively few were sold then the sale price would have to be very high, which means that the rental rate would have to be high. And at that point why try to make this happen as a RED product at all? If you need an occassional high speed shot, rent a Phantom for the day. It will probably less expensive than what the above variation would end up and you'll have an entire second camera package instead of just a brain.

I'm not trying to push Phantom on you, just trying to put it in some perspective. The solution already exists and what some are asking for may in the end be a more expensive solution.

 

[Anthony Gratl]

Do fake frame rates cost fake money? If so, which kind? Monopoly or Canadian? (Apologies to Graeme and our other friends from the cold north.)

oh don't apologize. your friends working counter at burger king in rochester give that response too, so we're used to that kind of stupidity. think nothing of it.

 

[Phil Bates]

I didn't get a chance to post this on the other thread, but I have to say that I am thrilled with the announcements, and the flawless performance of my RED ONE. Congratulations! The RED team is doing some incredibly revolutionary things. Hats off to all of you!

I hope that the doubters and complainers don't dampen the RED team's passion. Keep on going and enjoy the accomplishments, you deserve it!

If I ever start whining, somebody slap me.

All my best,
Phil

http://www.artbeats.com

 

[Tom Lowe]

Wasn't this the point of this thread? If RED could realistically offer this for this money, they would. If they can't, you have to accept paying more.

I am willing to pay more! If my whole FF35 Scarlet package is gonna set me back $25K or whatever, then I seriously don't mind spending a few Gs more for 3K @ 60fps. It's just vital to the type of stuff I shoot.

I am only making a humble request. I'm not complaining or asking for anything for free. :blush:

 

[ETCFILMS]

I think this will be my last post ... until NAB

OK back track a little. I am not trying to offend anybody here. Someone asked - is the high frame rate necessary? My reply is - in my case Hell YES. Cos I have done it and I will do it again.

Then someone else chip in about "HIS" own feeling toward certain movie I used as an example.

I am sorry? Am I on the wrong side of the world here (I based in London) why everytime we talk about the RED technology, there got to have someone jump in and talk about art and things that is elusive.

Can we go back to talk about the INCREDIBLE technology RED give to the world. And the generosity of Jim. To give us such amazing tools for lunch money (I do eat a lot ) .

P.S. I saw another post talk about "this is a dangerous time for art. More idiot with powerful tools" .... can this people stop???? Who are they to judge what other people are doing? If you go back in time a little bit, when I first start shooting VHS camera - the film people told me the same thing ... this is toy .... this is rubbish ... whatever.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

And at that point why try to make this happen as a RED product at all?

LOL!! I won't open up this can of worms ...

 

[Jose A. Garcia]

I have to say I really like this thread. After all the madness generated by nov13th and dec3rd announcements it's good to see a few people that realize we didn't have anything near this for such low prices a couple of years ago. Now we have it (or will have it soon) and what do we do? Complain.

"Jim, can you take this amazing piece of technology that is the 2/3" Scarlet and turn it into an Epic 617 with 1000fps and 56K for the same $2,500? No problem right? What? You can't? Ohh... I feel sooo disapointed!"

We all get a little crazy over these kind of announcements and start thinking that everything's possible. A couple of days ago I was posting a question asking why hadn't RED offered some kind of direct competitor to the 5D at the same price range. I'm sorry Jim. I guess you make it look too simple sometimes.

I'll be a happy man the moment I first put my hands on my fixed lens scarlet next year.

By the way, my name's Jose A. Garcia from Spain. I don't own a RED now, but I just can't wait.

 

[kay madsen]

forget frame rates... power consumption is the only thing that really matters... RED one is an amazing camera system, more than I ever dreamed of owning... but it´s way too power hungry... if the new cameras continue to draw as much power as RED one does, they are anything but the future of filmmaking... they are high tec dinosaurs...

one lightweight battery powering the camera for a whole day, that would be the future...

 

[Joe G.]

tell me more

tell me more

WesCog said:

"http://www.vimeo.com/1245371

We can do so much with already standard framerates, if we have a camera that can just record just a LITTLE BIT SLOWER, think of how much smoother you could make the footage."

Have you experimented with red footage and this post production software?

I am concerned that "time remapping" mixed with 2K footage might not cut it on the big silver screen. That is my main concern.

Has anyone done this?

Is the Scarlett 2K high speed footage likely to be better quality than the Red One 2K footage?

What is the main quality limiting factor for 2K on these sensors?

What about the new FF35 sensor at 2K? Will there be a marked improvement?

 

[Jerrod Cordell]

I am willing to pay more! If my whole FF35 Scarlet package is gonna set me back $25K or whatever, then I seriously don't mind spending a few Gs more for 3K @ 60fps. It's just vital to the type of stuff I shoot.

I am only making a humble request. I'm not complaining or asking for anything for free. :blush:

Why don't you just get the FF35 Scarlet and then just get the 2/3" fixed lens Scarlet for anything you need over 30fps. It'd probably be about the same price if they added it on, and you also get a nice little B (or C) camera.

And also, what's wrong with the 1-72fps in 2K on the FF35 Scarlet?