Real frame rates...

[Daniel Browning]

If RED going to compete with the likes of the Canon 5D Mark II, they're going to need to step up and bring their "A" game. This $2,700 camera has advanced technology to skip at least two pixels for every one that it reads. Such a breakthrough leads to such desirable image artifacts as moire, aliasing, jaggies, false detail, stair-stepping, noise, etc. These are qualities that moving image photographers have long desired, as they distract the audience from becoming too absorbed in the image.

The RED ONE, on the other hand, uses relatively ancient technology where every pixel is used and the desirable artifacts are almost non-existent. This failure causes viewers to be drawn into the moving image: clearly a recipe for mediocrity.

I'm not even going to mention Canon's codec advantage. Macroblocks add character to the image, REDCODE lacks that kind of pizzazz.

When will RED begin to offer advanced "line skipping"? All this time RED wasted on getting high framerates when it should have been spent on fakerates. (Like framerates, but faker.)

Do fake frame rates cost fake money? If so, which kind? Monopoly or Canadian? (Apologies to Graeme and our other friends from the cold north.)

 

[Edward Mendoza]

Wow, very nice. Great detail and love the shadows on the hand...

here jim heres some more
did you see the others?

really thankful, and sad to see you fighting the few nay sayers but i guess its part
of your job when the people that respect you are so many yet your never satisfied in making sure people understand red fully and yours and the companies hard work.
cant please em all, but you never give up trying
i know what thats like
but i really dont get that you just dropped futuristic cameras at futuristic prices
and not only is there no other camera company that has done this
but they wont and they cant match the modularity/interchangeable
and they cant even come close to the beauty
not even close.
and the new ones are a masterpiece.

p.s. ive never posted any images these are just for you : )
please ignore all the bull shit going around

 

[Todd M.]

Lots of tv commercials use higher frame rates, think of food, shampoo, cars. The reason it is such a big deal is that until now you would have to rent a very expensive camera to do those shots.

I think he was being facetious. his point was that because RED has made the cost of entry so cheap, now everyone WOULD be in the game... and creating a lot of bad slow movies... and apparently complaining about the privilege.

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Sometimes I get a call to shoot a comercial just because my Red can shoot 2k @ 120fps.

That tells it all.


Emmanuel

 

[Michael Moreno]

thanks edward.

the red one is insane and the other cameras must be.... well

the future .

 

[Todd M.]

here jim heres some more...

Beautiful work.

 

[REDneck]

I think he was being facetious. his point was that because RED has made the cost of entry so cheap, now everyone WOULD be in the game... and creating a lot of bad slow movies... and apparently complaining about the privilege.

I'm just saying slow mo is not the huge deal it's being made out to be. it's useful, sure, but all of a sudden everyone can't live without FF35 6k at 200 fps? give me a break, yesterday it didn't exist! everyone who's disappointed with the specs of FF35 Scarlet (and I can hardly believe anyone could be) can pick up a 2/3" and get your 150 fps bursts on the cheap.

 

[Michael Moreno]

thanks makkstyle
the crazy thing is

the red one did this work
i just carried its weight and its worth its weight in dreams
seriously though
i think most of the people on here havent shot or dont own a red cam
thats cool
but the problem is there is an experience that is indescribable when shooting with it
it is clear when shooting that red spent alot of time making the camera get the image to look beautiful and filled with movie magic and even more
its clear that they didnt just have it go in any old direction
they got it just right
and apparently, there making it even better
and there keeping us all in the loop
just hope they remember to kick the children out of the old wonka factory at the end because the real charlie bucket has been here all along
my name is michael moreno and im a red user and i use a red one

 

[Edward Mendoza]

my name is michael moreno and im a red user and i use a red one

Sounds like a PC commercial:w00t:

 

[Michael Moreno]

haha

my bad

and im on a macbook pro too

 

[Edward Mendoza]

Jim, I bet you guys are pretty excited about NAB next year....

 

[Todd M.]

I'm just saying slow mo is not the huge deal it's being made out to be. it's useful, sure, but all of a sudden everyone can't live without FF35 6k at 200 fps? give me a break, yesterday it didn't exist! everyone who's disappointed with the specs of FF35 Scarlet (and I can hardly believe anyone could be) can pick up a 2/3" and get your 150 fps bursts on the cheap.

Agreed. Like I said... cinematographic masturbation: it's not always necessary, but it sure feels good.

I think everyone around here has gotten so used to RED answering all their prayers (and more), that now they are just trying their luck.

 

[Michael Lindsay]

In all the frenzy of Epic/scarlet announcements I notice that Red One's 3k spec got pushed to 3k 72fps (I saved it at work). I'm not at work at the moment anyone else see that? Typo?

Michael L

 

[Wesley Scoggins]

http://www.vimeo.com/1245371

We can do so much with already standard framerates, if we have a camera that can just record just a LITTLE BIT SLOWER, think of how much smoother you could make the footage.

And the above example was shot with a camera that doesn't even compare to anything on the Red line, think of how much better it would look when you've got so much more visual information to work with.

 

[ETCFILMS]

watch a few more films? thanks for the condescension. i think you're missing my point.

All I am saying is you point out - a movie that is shoot at 120fps and it sounds to be that is the only application you can think of.

I don't think I have missed the point here. Like a few other people pointed out there - a lot of commercial are shot with high frame rate. Car advert are very often shoot over crack. This is how they get the motion so precise and smooth.

I plan to shoot a 8 minutes (and 12 seconds) long fight sequence ... I might just wait until Scarlet come out and shoot that with it - it sure save me a hell lot of money and 4 times more quality.

Consider this - The last time I shoot high speed cam. I have to rent a cam (about £1000 a day plus insurance) and I can only get 720p (I think I didn't even get that much) anyway, 3 days rental is enough for me to buy a scarlet and I can have it anytime I want in my backpack.

That's my point.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

here jim heres some more
did you see the others?...

Oh... are these filmic or what? Very, very nice shots.

*

Well, I've been reading the responses to Dec.3 here and on other boards and I'm surprised that there are still people which are unhappy and\or worried.

IMHO, the current camera lineup and upgrade options from RED are excellent and my humble advice to Mr. Jannard is to ignore the critics.

Concerning the request for a S35mm Monstro Epic, I notice that the price difference between the S35mm and FF35mm Epic brains is ~ 5000 $ [and even sweeter for the Scarlet models :biggrin:].

~ 5000 $ is identical to the MysteriumX sensor upgrade path for RED one, so I guess that the Monstro Upgrade price would be similar. This seems to be the next level of upgrade from RED, so I don't see a problem there either.

My understanding is that the respective FF35mm models are able to do everything that the S35mm ones can + more, and no limitations for the bigger model. Am I correct in thinking this?

If yes, then there shouldn't be any problems at all.


Just my 2 stotinkas [soon: eurocents :biggrin:]

 

[David Birdy]

One of the Great things about the Red Camera is:

It's like the "Swiss Army Knife of cameras"

If anyone recalls No one at Red ever "Promised".... 120 FPS it was considered a "free" Upgrade.

The fact that this camera can shoot 120FPS was the deciding factor for my 1st client to rent my camera!

I had to ship my order "directly" to my client and did not see my camera for the 1st 12 weeks I owned it!:biggrin:

When we ran into problems Jarred and Brent helped solve the issue in lighting speed... I only needed to ask for help and they were on it.

Customer service like that will make me a loyal customer forever!

The broad appeal and acceptance of these cameras will benefit all owners, even if you don't use the high frame rates, you derive a benefit from the people that do!

Please keep those innovations coming Jim & Red team, and thanks for the upgrade path to keep me current on technology with a full trade in value!


Dave

 

[Pawel Achtel]

If RED going to compete with the likes of the Canon 5D Mark II, they're going to need to step up and bring their "A" game. This $2,700 camera has advanced technology to skip at least two pixels for every one that it reads. Such a breakthrough leads to such desirable image artifacts as moire, aliasing, jaggies, false detail, stair-stepping, noise, etc. These are qualities that moving image photographers have long desired, as they distract the audience from becoming too absorbed in the image.

The RED ONE, on the other hand, uses relatively ancient technology where every pixel is used and the desirable artifacts are almost non-existent. This failure causes viewers to be drawn into the moving image: clearly a recipe for mediocrity.

I'm not even going to mention Canon's codec advantage. Macroblocks add character to the image, REDCODE lacks that kind of pizzazz.

When will RED begin to offer advanced "line skipping"? All this time RED wasted on getting high framerates when it should have been spent on fakerates. (Like framerates, but faker.)

Do fake frame rates cost fake money? If so, which kind? Monopoly or Canadian? (Apologies to Graeme and our other friends from the cold north.)

LOL

 

[Pawel Achtel]

$500K.

Jim

With or without R1 trade-in? :sarcasm:

 

[Jason Sinclair]

If RED going to compete with the likes of the Canon 5D Mark II, they're going to need to step up and bring their "A" game. This $2,700 camera has advanced technology to skip at least two pixels for every one that it reads. Such a breakthrough leads to such desirable image artifacts as moire, aliasing, jaggies, false detail, stair-stepping, noise, etc. These are qualities that moving image photographers have long desired, as they distract the audience from becoming too absorbed in the image.

The RED ONE, on the other hand, uses relatively ancient technology where every pixel is used and the desirable artifacts are almost non-existent. This failure causes viewers to be drawn into the moving image: clearly a recipe for mediocrity.

I'm not even going to mention Canon's codec advantage. Macroblocks add character to the image, REDCODE lacks that kind of pizzazz.

When will RED begin to offer advanced "line skipping"? All this time RED wasted on getting high framerates when it should have been spent on fakerates. (Like framerates, but faker.)

Do fake frame rates cost fake money? If so, which kind? Monopoly or Canadian? (Apologies to Graeme and our other friends from the cold north.)

I recently was on a job with a photographer (fashion show) who charged the same amount as me. He had full frame Canon camera. I decided to do some frame grabs for the client and he used them over the photographers. I can only guess that the emotional content where i could just film away and be unobtrusive was chosen over pixels because the grabs were... what can i say? better. In any case i know who he will hire next time and i know where i'll invest that money...

Sometimes you have to think inside the box.