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Rants

Jeffrey T. Morgan

Jeffrey T. Morgan

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anyone else kind of feel like "SORRY MARIO, BUT YOUR PRINCESS IS IN ANOTHER CASTLE"?

i mean, one camera with no real release date info, at a price point and release schedule that works for rental house types?

Good thing i was warming myself up for dissapointment. BUT, scarlet 2/3 will be in my hands the minute it is released (in a way that works for those of us who use their cameras to live)... so I am excited.

for 2011

now i can forget about all this till Nov 30, and calmly see what they say.


my real name is Jeff Morgan, i am trying to fix that. I will try when the servers calm down.
 
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Can't help feel disappointed. I've been interested in buying the Scarlet and I learned nothing from this announcement about that product. Though it very much seemed like we would

At some point I think someone Red has to commit what the Scarlet is. It can't do everything. And so be it. No one is going to say no to new features but you do the best you can, offer what you can and stick by it. I don't want a 2015 camera announced in 2010 to be delivered in 2015. I want the best 2010 camera.

It also feels like people who didn't get the Red will be punished for it. This feels like a sorority. I am waiting for some kind of initiation. Is it really so hard for a new user to get a new product without being told how much they lack in commitment because they weren't there in the very first stages?
 
I'm a student filmmaker, and unless there are some announcements that have not taken place yet, I am very disappointed with the pricing. I thought the whole idea behind Scarlet and Epic was that Scarlet would be for folks like me, attending school or people who just do not have a budget, and Epic would be for the professionals. However, it seems like all of the accessories have Epic-sized pricing:

2.8" LCD - $900
Bomb EVF - $3200
CF Card - $500
Side Handle - $950
Mount - $500
Scarlet Module Adapter - $300
Total: $6350

That isn't even including the price of the brain! If you are going to spend that much on accessories, what is the point in even getting a Scarlet? Yeah, Nikon and Canon messed up, and their flagship cameras still have the crappy h.264 codec. But is Scarlet really going to be worth $10,000 more? Do I really have to pay $10,000 for a RAW format? I don't understand why there has even been a comparison between Scarlet and the VDSLRs, because with the pricing Scarlet is in a completely different league then the D3s or 1D Mark IV.

Don't get me wrong, this is all extremely exciting for the future of movies, but I am not any closer to actually owning a camera... and with prices like that, I'll have to be out of college and a few years with a job before I can own it. I'm just disappointed and frustrated...
 
Jeff sorry for your disappointment. Remember though, in your list of things you have there you don't actually need any of those (except the Compact Flash) to go out and actually start shooting....
 
compare scarlet to whats available today for the money and there is no comparison. We are not talking about santa clause here.
 
Jeff,
I'm right there with you bud. While it is hard to justify the cost of such a promising camera to those with a smaller income, you must remember that RED and all of their cameras are designed with Cinema production in mind with Still abilities not vice versa (Canon, Nikon). Therefore, in order to obtain maximum performance, you must be willing to invest more than a few thousand dollars. I'm not saying I like/dislike the current environment, I'm just saying how it is. That said, I'm excited as ever about the future, and I cannot wait until the 30th of November to hear more about the Scarlet systems.

Alan
 
Pablo Spinnler said:
Such a disappointment. I guess that makes it 5k somewhere in the middle of 2010 or even later for the scarlet. i think i will uphold my 1d mk IV preorder now, was hoping to cancel it. I was so eager to see videos, prices, demo footage, etc. ...

hope they pull it off though ...
Click to expand...

Guys, modules are modules. Same for EPIC and Scarlet. Only difference is the brain and if you recall. 2/3 image grabs came out BEFORE Mysterium - X

EPIC beta testing will also speed the Scarlet release. Think about it.

This company had vapor ware 3 years ago. Takes time to build infrastructure and they are in uncharted waters...

chillax. Scarlet is coming... not far behind EPIC and you will be glad they waited when it arrives as bullet proof as a Panny or Sony in the same price range.

cheers
 
Jonathan Betz said:
Disappointing to say the least. Scarlet remains a fantasy far, far away on the horizon. I guess it's time for me to let go of my Scarlet dreams and start considering cameras that actually exist. Maybe I'll revisit RED in the future, but for now, very disappointing. I guess it was a mistake to get too excited about this announcement.

You can keep working on cameras forever, making them better and better and delaying releases more and more, but it seems like a bad idea to keep getting people's hopes up, especially when you are establishing a new market with a lower-priced Scarlet.
Click to expand...

Ajit_AP said:
Can't help feel disappointed. I've been interested in buying the Scarlet and I learned nothing from this announcement about that product. Though it very much seemed like we would

At some point I think someone Red has to commit what the Scarlet is. It can't do everything. And so be it. No one is going to say no to new features but you do the best you can, offer what you can and stick by it. I don't want a 2015 camera announced in 2010 to be delivered in 2015. I want the best 2010 camera.

It also feels like people who didn't get the Red will be punished for it. This feels like a sorority. I am waiting for some kind of initiation. Is it really so hard for a new user to get a new product without being told how much they lack in commitment because they weren't there in the very first stages?
Click to expand...




I'm in suspense movie. But in the end, instead of climax, I get an anticlimax.
I couldn't agree with you more.
Curiosly, I was not disappointed, probably because I felt that this anouncement would be something like this.

In RED everything changes (or so it seems).

The Scarlet and Epic info changed. It still sais "Decdember 3, 2008". Almost one year without changes.
But did they actually change?
As far as I'm concerned no. There was no Scarlet/Epic camera release, therefore, no change.

The very flagship slogans,

"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates...", "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude."

did not change. I guess somethings in life do not change.
About the the bad attitude... I wonder about the real meaning.
Is it a threat (no It's a warning, just in case, which the very same thing)?
Does RED assume from the start that the people who have been coming here over the years have a bad attitude? That we are gathered in some plot or conspiracy? Isn't this paranoia?

If you think that someone has a bad attitude (undefined concept by the way), just give the person a warning. Ultimately exlude them.

Another thing that doesn't change is the type of posts/anouncements RED makes public.

They all are about pacience, waiting, improving...
Improving what, may I ask? There's only one camera released and accesories appearing from time to time. But the camera (the real issue here) has no major improvements.

Also, a lot of reasons that I don't question.
What I question is, honestly, does it matter.

People (organizations, companies... you name it) are known for what they do/did, not for what they trided to do, but didn't get done.

JVC is known for inventing VHS
Sony is known for creating Betamax, 8mm
Philips is known for the release of VCC (the best and most expensive).

The Luimère Brothers, are known for their invention of cinema camera/projector.

Méliès is known for being "the father os special effects" because of it's photografic effects.

Eisenstein and Grifith are both known as "the parents of editing".

Arri is known for making excellent movie cameras since 1917 - almost 100 years.

Panavision form making the first anamorphing lenses without distortion with focal point change (unlike Cinemascope), and then cameras since 1974.

Zeiss, is known for it's quality lenses.

Dalsa is known for the release of the first 4K camera.

And the list is endless...


RED? So far RED is known for the release of RED ONE camera. And that's all.
When did that happen? What changed in RED camera? I do not use the plural as I would very much like to, because all that RED has is RED ONE. Not Scarlet, nor Epic.

The past and the future do not exist. We live in the instance of the presence. Everything else is one of the endless human conventions.

I've been ready and standing by for much more than I expected.
But this all thing ended up to be what is called in Psychology as the "Slot Machine Effect".

People play and play. Suddenly the slot machine releases the cash. So people get playing hoping for the next win. When is it going to be, they don't no because is random event. So they're hooked and will keep playing untile they spend the last dime they one.

That's what I feel here. Something big is about to happen, but nobody knows when. Therefore they keep waiting.

I'm not playing this game anymore.

I have neither the time, pacience, interest, or anything to look forward by doing it.

I deal with real things, not with things that are almost there... about to...
The market is unsanely bad for everyone. One more reason not to waste time/money.

I'll continue to keep my eyes on RED, just in case the slot machine opens, who knows? But I will not for RED. I simpathize with RED's problems. But it's RED's quest, not mine. We all have our problems. Mine, amongst others, is not having that incredible breakthrough device from RED as I and others ecpected.

So if RED is unable for whatever reason, to provide me with actual existing products that are in my interest range, than someone else will. That's the market. And if RED claims it's slowing down then I wonder what are we RED fans doing here? Are we not part of the market? Are we not the market? The demand? So many people saying they are willing to pay right now and ask for your instructions? If this is a bad market than 1 of 2 things are happening: my notion of market (demand/offer) is wrong or your intended market is different from the people eagerly waitng here.

Of course RED has all the right to make his own rules and is intitled to have his policy.
But after all these years... what are they? Did they also change?

Honestly, I don't know and I will not make any effort to discover them under this fuzzy thing.

RED has my contact. When and only when something is actually released, feel free to fill my mail box.

You're the sellers, you go to customers, unless you're in the business to loose money (nobody is). I will keep my eye sharp, but I will not be running after things that don't exist.

Who knows? Maybe we will do business in the future. But not this way.
Oh and by the way, never with advanced payments. I buy I pay. Once again I will not finance somthing that doesn't exit. Besides being unfair for everybody, it never works well. Don't count me in pre-payed ordeings. This is not fast food that comes to you in following minute, or is it? Of course not.


I've learned a lot from RED, this foruns and everything related.
So I want to thank RED for that, for the oportunity of speaking freely.

But things change don't they? I have to take a leap forward.
Thank you all.


Best wishes, from the bottom of my heart.

Sincirely,
 
The cultish defense of Red is just flat-out annoying by now. Basically what happened today is that the company (after much pent-up hype) announced that the Scarlet is significantly delayed, while Red has decided to raise its cost (thus turning their long-running slogan "3k for under $3k" into a joke). As the cost of the Scarlet edges higher, its fundamental premise of giving truly independent filmmakers access to cinema-quality technology is pretty much dead. Basically, Red cameras being priced "low" (relative to industrial equipment) is largely for the excitement of rental houses that can turn a bigger profit compared to their outlays, as well as for the excitement of not-so-independent filmmakers who have deep pockets behind them (or make a lot of money on the side doing weddings and corporate videos and training videos and so forth that have nothing to do with moviemaking).

Central to these discussions should not be, "but it's a bargain compared to Sony and Panasonic industrial equipment" -- rather, the questions are: (a) does Red really need to jack up prices to cover some unforeseen loss; and (b) is Red moving too slowly compared to larger manufacturers and their economies of scale?

Don't forget that Red is basically the Oakley Corporation who simply thought it would be cool to get into the video camera business. You're not talking about a crop of the world's finest innovators and scientists and businessmen and industrial designers. Just dudes from the O.C., where the beach is only a few miles away (and was my home).
 
H. Paul Moon said:
Don't forget that Red is basically the Oakley Corporation who simply thought it would be cool to get into the video camera business. You're not talking about a crop of the world's finest innovators and scientists and businessmen and industrial designers. Just dudes from the O.C., where the beach is only a few miles away (and was my home).
Click to expand...

Heh heh I like this one.. I think I am going to put it in our RED REEL for next NAB. :)
 
Jarred Land said:
Heh heh I like this one.. I think I am going to put it in our RED REEL for next NAB. :)
Click to expand...
Right, so anyway, in all seriousness, now that Red will be making some extra money and will also see a big cash flow from pre-orders, Red should think about recruiting top talent from top-tier engineering schools or even overseas.

By the way, a reminder of the announcement in December 2008 about how the fixed 2/3" Scarlet kit was going to cost $3,750. We have been told today that there will be a very minor increase. Just marking that for reference when November 30 arrives.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/03/reds-big-change-announcement-is-big-for-pros-disappointing-f/
 
Heh heh I like this one.. I think I am going to put it in our RED REEL for next NAB. :)
Click to expand...

More distractions. How about instead of cutting that RED REEL and ridiculing your customers you cut together some of the footage that Jannard was raving about from the Scarlet?

Didn't think so.
 
Jarred Land said:
Jeff sorry for your disappointment. Remember though, in your list of things you have there you don't actually need any of those (except the Compact Flash) to go out and actually start shooting....
Click to expand...

Student loans keep looking better and better. I just hope the banker is a film nerd I guess! :thumbup1:

Aside from prices, everything looks awesome though!
 
what the hell is everyone bitching about?

Dont like it? get something you CAN afford.

its not RED responsibility to cater to anyone but their customers.
and Im not really seeing many current RED customers bitching.

Just sayin...

this is great gear, and if its worth it to you Im sure you will find a way.

THIS isnt pointed at any one person.. its just things ive noticed along the way
 
Jonathan Betz said:
Disappointing to say the least. Scarlet remains a fantasy far, far away on the horizon. I guess it's time for me to let go of my Scarlet dreams and start considering cameras that actually exist. Maybe I'll revisit RED in the future, but for now, very disappointing. I guess it was a mistake to get too excited about this announcement.

You can keep working on cameras forever, making them better and better and delaying releases more and more, but it seems like a bad idea to keep getting people's hopes up, especially when you are establishing a new market with a lower-priced Scarlet.
Click to expand...

I'm very disappointed too, I was expecting a Scarlet ready to be used. Since the time I bother everybody around me for a super new camera available this fall. Now I look like an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about. I totally lost my credibility. I still keep my faith in Red but for now it's over regarding its integration with my fellow. When there is a delay like this, it's important to know it. Don't forget that there is people who put their head to be cut for your company. More news would be appreciate and not a suspense like this for nothing concrete to eat right now.
 
Martial said:
I'm very disappointed too, I was expecting a Scarlet ready to be used. Since the time I bother everybody around me for a super new camera available this fall. Now I look like an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about. I totally lost my credibility.
Click to expand...



lost your credibility?

if your credibility is based on something that doesent exist, well dude its your life
 
I doubt if the fixed will come in under $4500, depending on what you get with it. If it ain't ready to shoot "out of the box" count me out, it's getting beyond my budget as it is.
Let's see now.....$4500 / 1.65 = £2730 (Rounded) + 12.5% import duty = £3070 (Again rounded) + 17.5% VAT assuming Darling Alasdair (Hawk-spit-ding) doesn't put it up to 20% gives us £3600 (Rounded down).
And that's for the cheapest option which isn't a do-both camera. The minimum for that is the s35 Scarlet at even more.
The motion picture quality of the latest vDSLRs just isn't up to acceptable quality yet, perhaps by the time the 2/3" Scarlet comes out they will be, who knows. Until then I'm saving my money.
Dave
 
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