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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Proxy Module...

This is quite a long thread and I have not read through it so this might have been asked.

Could this module work with any of the 7000 RED Ones out there?

I'll try to give a practical example:
It would be handy to have this feature with your EPIC and your RED ONE M-X if you were shooting them side by side, if RED Ones are not going away for some time then it would be nice if this could be backwards compatible and work with RED ONES.

David
 
I have to ecco the sentiment that H.264 is a bad format for editorial. This is a decent idea for sharing dailies with clients via the web, etc... but there is no way I would approach a RED job in offline with H.264 media. This is one big reason I transcode to uncompressed any footage I get from a 7D before I edit... or that is until Canon came out with the plugin that allows you to go to ProRes right from the source directory.

I'd much rather cut with good old proxies (QT REDCODE) that the camera creates, and then have XML support in Redcine-X.
 
Jannard said:
This module encodes a 1080P stream (high quality scale from full frame) and records to Compact Flash in a rear module.
Click to expand...

So in order for this module to record to a CF card we'll need another CF module? Or is there a slot for a CF card in THIS module? That'd make more sense...
:confused5:
 
CJ Roy said:
It's really going to be funny to watch a director with a 17" & 26" Panasonics in front of him choose to watch the shots on an iPad.
Click to expand...

Ideally there should also really be an application on the PC creating playback copies. Then the director can have his own tablet and quickly browse through previous takes on the PC if there is something specific he wants to look at. With the size of H264 and a sufficient RAID that could be any shot from the film. Or he could also be viewing the live feed on the nice video village.

Forget iPad, the ZuneHD and hopefully future iPod Touches can playback HD files. This would be great for gaffers and crew who are adjusting lights or ADs who need to cue events from out of frame. Give them all a $200 4" little monitor.

Only trouble with Wifi is it's not multi-cast. So there will be limits to how many people can view the stream at once before nobody can.
 
I want that our editors/directors/DoPs get a color corrected offline material that it reflects what they want to see in terms of the look. so changing LUTs at every scene we did with sony cameras and so on... thats the past... I'm TC and Genlock synced on a new Ambient lockit on camera with our soundrecordists and doing all the LAB work on set with the macpro and the rocket... to set up the dayly editingsetup takes couple of minutes then with autosync... so I dont need a ProRes module... even DNxHD module... it would make it faster to get it into the editing system, but you will not get your look. so H264 with streaming is great... the rest I'm doin with the right tools... I mean you should see how all the set people are looking when you sitting there with redcine-x and the mc color board and grading the footage... even the DoP likes it a lot to try different looks and the director has in the editing room then there what they wanted that it should look like... think of that...
plus the benefit to change everything later on, because we are working RAW... I mean its like heaven...

best,
rainer
 
Terry VerHaar said:
With gigabit ethernet and h.264 compression, is that number likely to be very restrictive?
Click to expand...

I'm not a network engineer so my reading may be out of date but last I checked WiFi handled multi-cast pretty poorly. Multicast works by assuming that it can just stream a signal and all the recipients can blindly accept it. In such a system there is no handshake between client and server the data just goes out and anyone who has authentication can see it. On a wired network that's a safe assumption. There is very little data loss so the application can piece together what it received into a good picture and fill in the gaps.

With Wifi there is a lot more lossiness in the signal covered up by transparently resending data. RED might be able to implement a good multicast system. But I'm not sure they're going to go to the effort and I'm not certain you can implement such a system without support in the wireless hardware itself which in this case they would have control over. However even if they don't, there are solutions on the PC side which could work as a multicast server from the Proxy's wifi stream. This seems like the safest bet and probably not too much trouble if you have so many people wanting to watch the stream that a multicast system would be necessary.

Again though: not a network engineer. Just an avid reader. I know there are a lot of people working on this problem, I just don't know that all hardware platforms are friendly to multi-casting yet.
 
I got nothing to add. Just wanted to give yet an other shout out here because I thinking about this h.264 for dailies and 5k RedCode RAW workflow make me so giddy with excitement that I felt I had to vent some of this awesomeness or I was gonna SNL in my ps.
 
Jim, et al,

Have you considered making a DNxHD module?

If you do, you'd have a drop-in format that can be used in most professional post houses right now and for the forseeable future. Existing Avids can't read the Alexa's ProRes files. And H.264, widely used, still requires a transcode for both FCP and the current Avids.

Making a DNxHD module would out workflow Arri for the largest of projects. These are cut in big post houses that are generally slow to upgrade their equipment. So the footage is cut on "old" Avids. The Alexa's ProRes (and Red's H.264) would still require a transcode. DNxHD would of course not and can track all metadata.

Good luck and thanks for all the great work.
 
Great work RED Team.

A couple of notes / suggestions if you haven't already thought of them:

1) There will obviously need to be a Proxy Media meter for how much space is left. But the RED Drive/CF will fill up and may be swapped at different times throughout the day. Can you put a Proxy Meter right next to the RED Drive/CF Meter but in a different color with the word "H.264" or "ProRes" over it?

2) Can't remember, but when RED Media space gets low, the meters turns from green to yellow to red, but perhaps when it gets really low, the Media Meters can slowly blink so the operator really sees when the RED Mag or Proxy Mag is about to be full. Same with Battery Status?

3) Sounds like R3D Data Manager and others need to get up to speed with support for this. Also brings up an interesting on set question: When does the Data Management Tech decide to swap Proxy Media? I'm thinking a good habit would be to swap every time he/she swaps the RED Mag, even if there is a ton of space left on the Proxy CF Card...

4) It would be great if the Antennae on the Proxy Modules were able to screw on/off as well as fold/rotate to make room for various accesories/cables that may get in the way on top of the camera. But why not have Lemo connections / cables with the Antennae able to be extended and clipped anywhere onto the camera or rail system, that way they wouldn't have to live on top of the Camera, and the ports could be moved to the dumb side similar to other modules? Course, I might be over looking a good reason why this wouldn't be ideal.

Thoughts?
 
Casey Green said:
Great work RED Team.

A couple of notes / suggestions if you haven't already thought of them:

...SNIP...

4) It would be great if the Antennae on the Proxy Modules were able to screw on/off as well as fold/rotate to make room for various accesories/cables that may get in the way on top of the camera. But why not have Lemo connections / cables with the Antennae able to be extended and clipped anywhere onto the camera or rail system, that way they wouldn't have to live on top of the Camera, and the ports could be moved to the dumb side similar to other modules? Course, I might be over looking a good reason why this wouldn't be ideal.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Lemo connectors aren't good for RF as WiFi antennas would require.

Most applications such as this requiring detachable RF antennas use something like a SMC style connector. They aren't recessed, so if you operate sans antennas, you'll have a couple of small stubs up top.

-sc
 
One module to rule them all...

One module to rule them all...

How about a switchable module to do ProRes or DNXHD?
 
Michael Hastings said:
How about a switchable module to do ProRes or DNXHD?
Click to expand...

that would be awesome..
if also it is a firmware upgradable module..for future formats,

OR, maybe might be third party supported.. like if you want to add Cineform license you just buy it from Cineform and install the codec on your module..
 
I'm sure that in the not too distant future there will be a ProRes Module and a DNxHD Module. The advantages are too obvious that Red will bypass this opportunity.

Remember that approx. 90% of the projects shot on Red won't last longer than half a year and at least half of them end up in the web. Many of them don't need RAW, especially with the new sensor and colour science which does a remarkably good job.

For the vast majority ProRes or DNxHD will be fine. Arri knows that, Red knows that. The problem probably is that the development of such modules needs the collaboration of Apple and Avid. That might take some time, money and negotiations. h284 is free AFAIK, h264 hardware encoders are already available and on the market. Such a module can be developed comparable easy. This not the case with ProRes and DNxHD.

Hans
 
BTW, there are hardware encoders for DNxHD. Ikegami makes DNxHD recordable cameras, and there is Avid's own line of Mojo DX hardware that processes DNxHD. How exactly the existing encoders would mate w/ Red's potential offerings, IDK.
 
Can there be a module receiver that would receive the proxy wireless and translate to HD-SDI so we can use existing monitors?
 
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