PROMETHEUS Reaction (((NO SPOILERS till June 8)))

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Pretentious meaningless mythological name dropping in an average shooting gallery film with an amazing DP and design/production/fx team. "Dude let's put in another mythological reference, that'll make us soooo deep and cultured" "Hell yeah!" "Should we write any plot or just hope that random references to really heady intellectual subjects will give the illusion of thought and insight." "Definitely the latter, they'll assume that since they don't get, it's just too smart for them!" "Cool!"

Prometheus is what happens when screenwriters read a bunch of Wikipedia articles on mythology and philosophy and hope the audience assumes that confusion == intellectual depth.

 

[Scott Crawley]

The rush to judgement continues...

These are pretty intelligent people who spent a good amount of time developing this story. It may be wise to invest a little more than a couple hours for a single viewing before claiming superior intellect and tearing it to pieces. Just a thought.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

These are pretty intelligent people who spent a good amount of time developing this story. It may be wise to invest a little more than a couple hours for a single viewing before claiming superior intellect and tearing it to pieces. Just a thought.

It's also part of the people who brought us the meaningless smoke monster from Lost. They've lost the benefit of the doubt. And the more I hear the less hope I have of it having any substance at all. The Engineers are angry because we killed their Space Jokey Jesus? *YAWN*

We're all pretty savvy movie goers. I issue a challenge to somebody to explain to me the plot of this movie as they see it.

1) Engineers create man kind in their own image. Sure, whatever.
2) ... ?Engineers get killed by Black Goo? Wait... WHY!?
3) Engineers decide to kill humans with black goo. Why!?
4) Girl gets impregnated by black Goo. Why!?
5) Guy gets turned into Chinese gymnast monster. Why!?
6) Rich guy wants to be made immortal. Ooo me too!
7) Engineer leaves to destroy earth. Why!?

That's not a plot. That's like napkin notes for the idea of a movie.

What's the message the film maker is trying to convey?
Nature is a crafty bastard that will both make you and try to destroy you for no reason what so ever?
Abdominal injuries are the universal punishment for being curious?
Humanity's primordeal form is a Kraken?

I'm really curious if anyone can actually articulate a coherent story let alone message out of the film. I'm not asking for *the* correct interpretation. I'm just looking for *a* legitimate interpretation. Surely someone can put together a coherent idea. A number of you must have since you really liked the film. Did it ask some big questions "where did we come from?" "what does it all mean?" "is there a god?" Yes. But I could make a 10 second long movie with someone who literally asks the same questions since beyond literally asking those questions out loud the film makes absolutely no effort to challenge the viewer with answering them. I mean it's a legitimate question do Aliens disprove God? But... like... the Phantom Menace had aliens so ... doesn't it ask the same "big questions" if that's the benchmark?

It's just a random mishmash of the story of prometheus blended with people getting killed by aliens.

"Prometheus gave life to humanity and fashioned them from clay." "Dude making humanity from black mud, check!"
"Ooo don't forget pandora's pots from which all the evils and death of the worlds come!" "Pots of evil, check!"
"Oohh, we can get some Christian symbolism in there too. Make the creature which comes from Pandora's pots a serpent!" "Random satanic serpent, check!"
"While we're on the christian thread, let's make a random Xenomorph Jesus on a cross." "Christian mythological tapestry, check!"
"Oooo and prometheus had his stomach eaten out by an eagle. " "abdominal injury, check!"
"Raise the stakes by threatening earth's destruction." "WMD, check!"

What prometheus could have done:

Wayland discovers ship wreck of creators. They're all dead. Discovers their planet seeding black goo, wants to be immortal so he starts research into black goo. Black goo gets out of control and "fire"/"life" gets out of control and kills everybody--creates first xenomorph out of wayland. He is then punished for giving life to humanity by getting his chest burst from. Simple, coherent and potentially excellent movie.

 

[Scott Crawley]

I issue a challenge to somebody to explain to me the plot of this movie as they see it.

I'm not interested in putting a ceti plot eel in your helmet Gavin. I believe in your right to draw your own conclusions... That and trying to sum it all up would take way more time and effort than it is worth, and I'm only beginning to draw some conclusions of my own. Besides, that blog did a much better job than I can, and you dismiss those ideas pretty quickly. I know a waste of time when I see one. :beer:

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Yeah ok not good but Epic looked stunning!! Skin tones all of it - but wow what' a mess of great ideas crammed into well who knows Halo meets Alien meets episode iv death star trash compactor creature? Got a great idea for a mash up - comedy gold

Big visual A+ -and a big swing and a miss - like an Edsel Film - no soul like one of the characters cruelly said to David
It was cold and lifeless more than anything - bereft of hope

Who didn't want to say "I god a bad feeling about this" when that white thing slithers through the black water ? Then it pops up I expected the other dude to start screaming "3PO! Shut down all trash compactors on the detention level! "

 

[ericyoung]

The rush to judgement continues...

These are pretty intelligent people who spent a good amount of time developing this story. It may be wise to invest a little more than a couple hours for a single viewing before claiming superior intellect and tearing it to pieces. Just a thought.

I watched it twice actually and waited a week before writing about it. Avoided almost all the hype and trailers when I could. Still disappointed.

I make no claim to superior intellect or to be a great writer, although that doesn't mean I can't see script issues.
My reactions are as a viewer and fan of Ridley Scott's work in general.

 

[Paul Provost]

It was genius. All you complainers try and do better. Man what a ride.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Besides, that blog did a much better job than I can, and you dismiss those ideas pretty quickly. I know a waste of time when I see one. :beer:

I can dismiss: "Magic Goo gets selfish in the presence dirty greedy human beings." quickly because that's how long it takes me to rip it to shreds.

That goes against Ridley Scott who says that the Engineers are "Dark Angels" (aka Demons/Satan) and "aggressive f***ers" who are making "weapons that would make our chemical warfare look ridiculous". So clearly they aren't noble self sacrificing creators whose lovely hippie juice got infected with dirty greedy capitalism. The blog is definitively wrong. It has other clearly inaccurate foundations like "Refusal to accept death is anathema to the Engineers." Except the engineers are seen running away from their monsters. And the Final Engineer Boss is seen fighting off the Kraken. Where was his acceptance of death? Another example of that blog getting everything wrong, he's all about the abdominal injuries being some larger meaning. First of all, there is no larger meaning to Jesus being stabbed in the stomach. It's an homage but it's not thematic. I've never read a theological interpretation of the significance of Jesus's abdomen have large mythological significance. And Ridley Scott even admits that "Prometheus" was also tacked on after being recommended by a Studio Exec. He wanted it to be titled "Paradise" in an homage to Paradise Lost. Paradise Lost doesn't have any abdominal injuries that I can remember so getting fixated on it beyond the fact that you have chest bursters in Aliens and Prometheus had his stomach ripped out is superficial to the plot.

But even within the interview Ridley Scott can't even seem to come up with a coherent message for his own story. In one sentence he's saying that they are aggressive fuckers who make chemical weapons and you don't want to meet. On the other hand he's saying we're their unruly children and they sent Jesus Christ Space Jockey to earth to try and make us peace loving creatures. So... which is it? And why did the black goo turn on them? And why do you need a ship load of that crap if you only need a drop of it to terraform a whole planet? And what do they expect to accomplish by making super evil aliens out of all life on earth with their black goo? Surely at this point they understand that if humanity is evil... super-powered humanity would be worse right? It makes no sense. The film is philosophical nonsense.

In an interview I found with the writer he offers no elevation of the Engineers as some sort of aspirational creatures. He only talks about them as nothing more than a disappointment. He also says that the original script didn't have the Engineers and that they were tacked on. No shock. Another superficial attempt at adding "Depth".

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

You don't get a chance to explain your movie - all I know is the moraL of the story is:

We are all descendants of the death start Trash compactor alien Snake thingy

From a long time ago in a galaxy's far far away.

Charlize filmed a week had no idea what she was in and 3PO and R2D2 were sorely missed

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Very pertinent interview (sorry if this has already been posted) http://www.movie-moron.com/?p=22442

 

[Paul Nordin]

This is really great stuff.

 

[Scott Crawley]

But even within the interview Ridley Scott can't even seem to come up with a coherent message for his own story. In one sentence he's saying that they are aggressive fuckers who make chemical weapons and you don't want to meet. On the other hand he's saying we're their unruly children and they sent Jesus Christ Space Jockey to earth to try and make us peace loving creatures. So... which is it? And why did the black goo turn on them? And why do you need a ship load of that crap if you only need a drop of it to terraform a whole planet? And what do they expect to accomplish by making super evil aliens out of all life on earth with their black goo? Surely at this point they understand that if humanity is evil... super-powered humanity would be worse right? It makes no sense. The film is philosophical nonsense.

Ridley couldn't explain it, or wouldn't? I think he deliberately refrains from spoon feeding in interviews for the same reasons he avoids providing all of the answers within the film. It is meant to be interpreted by the audience. Film is an active experience that takes each of us on our own journey. It is a shared journey, but we each view the world in our own way. If there is no room for us to enter the film, if the film maker slams the door on us by forcing absolute meanings for it all, there will be little interest in seeing it.

Let's not forget that interviews are conducted and edited by other people with their own views that may or may not have anything in common with the film maker or you. The cohesiveness of Scott's answers in the interview you saw is determined by a middle man. We need to make allowances for them as well.

Why couldn't the engineers be both of the thing you mention? Must they be one dimensional? Do they have to be entirely benevolent or entirely evil?

You ask some demanding questions and I think that's great, but I can't help thinking that there is a whole lot that you are missing. I know I missed a lot the first time out, and I'll admit to being a little confused by it at times, but that doesn't necessarily denote failure on the part of the narrative or the direction. It is because I know that my view is still somewhat narrow that I don't share your apparent attitude.

I don't dismiss everything that I don't understand as crap.

 

[Jay Birch]

These are pretty intelligent people who spent a good amount of time developing this story. It may be wise to invest a little more than a couple hours for a single viewing before claiming superior intellect and tearing it to pieces. Just a thought.

Isn't the whole point of film making to win your audience over in that single viewing though? They should want to revisit the film because they initially liked it and want to discover more... Not because they disliked it and hope a 2nd viewing might make more sense.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Isn't the whole point of film making to win your audience over in that single viewing though? They should want to revisit the film because they initially liked it and want to discover more... Not because they disliked it and hope a 2nd viewing might make more sense.

What is there to discover in a second viewing if they spoon feed you all of the answers in absolute black and white the first time?

 

[Jay Birch]

Why does it have to be so black and white? Spoon feeding or hidding away some subtle mythology, but not even attempting to answer it.... I'm with Gavin on that... They may as well just ask a few questions at the start and show us 2 hours of Iceland footage while we contemplate the answers. There is a middle ground between spoon feeding all the answers and offering subtle ideas that never get explored further than asking a set of questions that get rehashed with every BBC/Discovery program about Space.

One of my most watched films is "eternal sunshine of the spotless mind".... They don't explain every single concept in that film, but I revisit it often because I care for the characters and there is always something to take from rewatching the film.

 

[Jason Sinclair]

No amount of re-visitation can fix that movie.

Time to stop the spin doctors.

If you ate a meal and it tasted like ... lets just say something unpleasant, no amount of re-eating it will change that fact.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Time to stop the spin doctors.

You too are entitled to your opinion. But if the above is directed at me then you are certainly missing something. If something seems to be spinning, check your head, because it certainly isn't me. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I am simply suggesting that an open mind is good to have. Passion too is good to have, so dislike it if you will, hate it if you must. It's all fine with me. ;-)

Why does it have to be so black and white? Spoon feeding or hidding away some subtle mythology, but not even attempting to answer it.... I'm with Gavin on that... They may as well just ask a few questions at the start and show us 2 hours of Iceland footage while we contemplate the answers. There is a middle ground between spoon feeding all the answers and offering subtle ideas that never get explored further than asking a set of questions that get rehashed with every BBC/Discovery program about Space.

Indeed it should not be black and white. If your opinion is that it is too ambiguous then that would be fair to say. I didn't get it, therefore it sucks (to paraphrase) is not a fair or valid argument IMO. No offense to anyone intended.

 

[Alex Lindblom]

For crying out loud ambiguity is not an issue here, the problem is that the movie asks no questions at all. Also it lacks any "internal story logic.”

Mulholland Drive is one of my favorite movies ever, do I know exactly what the blue box and key means and the blue haired lady/man – no. But the movie eat least ask the question of me, and lets me think about it.

Prometheus has no question, just because a character says something doesn’t mean that the film says it.

 

[Scott Crawley]

For crying out loud ambiguity is not an issue here, the problem is that the movie asks no questions at all. Also it lacks any "internal story logic.”

Mulholland Drive is one of my favorite movies ever, do I know exactly what the blue box and key means and the blue haired lady/man – no. But the movie eat least ask the question of me, and lets me think about it.

Prometheus has no question, just because a character says something doesn’t mean that the film says it.

It's an interesting observation. I can't say I agree, but it is interesting.

The death of her parents has created a lifelong crisis of faith for Shaw. She embarks on the Prometheus in futherance of her quest for God. At the climax she asks God "Why do you hate us?" Is that not a question posed by the film?

To paraphrase David asks don't all children wish for their parent's death?

Those sound like really big questions to me. How did you miss them?

A few questions the film does not ask directly, but prompted me to think about include:

Are there gods of flesh and blood similar to us?
Is God vengeful?
At what point does an aging parent become a selfish burden on their child? Is there a point at which it is better to leave them?
Is it better to have a parent that is more loving for a short period of time, or one that is less loving for longer?
Quality v Quantity

I would think of others, but my kid is demanding more quality time.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Hey, as far as Christ and the "evil" conflict are concerned, perhaps, in this regard, evil is in our eyes: try reading the old testament. Or consider the concept of hell, purgatory. Scarier than evil, and yet born from heaven.....
A jealous god. A vengeful god. Much that would seem evil to an outsider. No?

David's head is ripped off in a rather vengeful way: "now we have become the god's" says Weyland at TED. That likely would tick me off if I were the god ( as close as I am to being one, that is) The engineers don't like the competition or crude direction things are taking. Perhaps?

Surely there is enough in dualism, the creation myths... to be getting on with. It's a movie for heaven's sake. And not a bad sci fi at that. I'd rather bask in the story myth potential than stew over how a geologist should behave after a two year sleep and a mission that is much more than he bargained for - or trying to paint a robot with one's knowledge of a robot's personality or learning curve, not to mention agenda. Eric is so far off course with his tack.

Is/was Vickers a robot, many ask. If she was, then why was she panicking to suit up with only seconds left till her escape pod took off? Robot's don't need a suit, unless they don't know they are robots that is. Maybe the answer will reside in how much Theron is offered for the next installment: robot or mortal? ( :