Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Profile: SC 4.1 250ISO

Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso said:
Clients/director will complain about seeing the output too dark if you expose for 320ISO and set the same setting on camera.
Click to expand...

Wasn't that one of the reasons for creating the RedSpace monitoring output?

The reason I don't use RedSpace is basically that I make more mistakes with underexposing the RAW files than I do with overexposing them, so I don't want the monitor output to make me think I have more exposure than I really have.

But it all depends on the reasons for the monitor - is it to make you happy, or the clients? This is one reason why some people use a reference monitor in a black tent and give the clients and director something brighter, poppier.

But the other issue is dailies, conversions, and what they should look like.

RED's Rec709 monitoring output parameters may need some tweaking, that's all. I already know one tech who complains that the chroma levels are too low compared to actual Rec709 specs and he changes the chroma levels in the metadata to fix that.
 
David,

Once again I couldn't agree with you more! I too prefer and recommend viewing RAW/Rec709 for the vary reasons you mention. Most tend to underexpose/protect for the highlights...but switching between RAW and REC709 seems to preserve the most information without underexposing too much.

In RedAlert/RedCine I find boosting the saturation and pulling out some of the green from the metadata (especially under tungsten lighting) really helps the REC709. And of course adjusting down the phase on the Panasonic 1700 pulls out the green from the directors/DP monitor.
I have yet to load up MacGregors file but look forward to testing it.
 
Regards

Regards

Thanks MacGregor for sharing your tech with the RedUser community.

(Assuming installing the look file isn't a nightmare) I see a lot of upside in the real world on real sets with professionals of widely varying levels of technical understanding, not to mention vocabulary. Matching what the DPs light meter is saying - priceless. Having the SDI output more WISIWYG than the current options, helpful in so many ways.

Digression alert:
The first feature I ever worked on with #19 we quickly discovered that the monitoring pathway could lead you astray. The quick fix was to shoot 10 seconds of the scene, pull the CF card, copy it to my laptop and look at the histogram in RedAlert. Still a good way to check your stop BTW.

Nowadays I cruise around with heavy iron on wheels that allows me to actually do a quick grade on the RAW files in Scratch on set. Its an awesome system but a whole lot more overhead than loading a look into the camera. YMMV.

What I really want is to be able to use the false color to map Ansel Adams Zones with reliable fidelity. So Mac, how close is your profile to providing accurate false color readings? Would the values remain faithful regardless of lighting conditions - tungsten/low con vs daylight/high con?

Cheers- Blair
 
Installing the file is fine as long as you get it into the Profiles folder on the SD card.

I have a spreadsheet with the values he is using if anyone wants/needs it. This is a way to confirm it has loaded correctly in case you have other profiles you are using.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
I have a spreadsheet with the values he is using if anyone wants/needs it. This is a way to confirm it has loaded correctly in case you have other profiles you are using.
Click to expand...

Steve, that would be great. I would like to run some tests this week and these values would be of great help.

Great thread... Thanks to everyone. :beer:
 
attachment.php


It might look simple, but it took us 2 days to get this right.

Remember it works only at 709 mode and 250ISO, and you have to manually set those two values.
 
Nice work
 
shot my first tests with the red two weeks ago. used redspace....

coming from a video background, i completely agree with everything this profile stands for. and i would shoot exclusively with this in any outdoor/daylight circumstance.

thanks for the effort!

btw that curve looks exactly like the standard curve i would apply to all my non-red linearly shot footage :)
 
Sorry for the aside but I need some information.

Here is my problem, I have a completely clean SD card, I tried to export from my camera a user profile in order to make a working profile folder from the camera and I get this message," Profile Export Failed-- Verify that the SD card is not full and try again"... It also did not work when I tried to make a Profile Folder on the card itself in order to place Mac's profile within that folder. Guys, what do I need to make this happen. All help is greatly appreciated... Currently running Beta Build 18 for testing.

Thank you.

Andrew
 
Andrew Benz said:
Sorry for the aside but I need some information.

Here is my problem, I have a completely clean SD card, I tried to export from my camera a user profile in order to make a working profile folder from the camera and I get this message," Profile Export Failed-- Verify that the SD card is not full and try again"... It also did not work when I tried to make a Profile Folder on the card itself in order to place Mac's profile within that folder. Guys, what do I need to make this happen. All help is greatly appreciated... Currently running Beta Build 18 for testing.

Thank you.

Andrew
Click to expand...
Wipe card clean, then reinsert in camera. Make a few changes to your tone values, export a profile. It should now show up as Profile0. Then take the card out, copy Mac's profile into that PROFILES folder, re-insert into camera, reset Looks (Clear) and then import. You should see SC profile now in the options.
 
I always visualize the DR of the RED1 as a elastic string that has the two ends fixed (you will not get more info in the highlights or in the shadows less noise than you recorded) but since is elastic you can move the in between up or down (on the set for monitoring or in the post to get youre desired look) obviously with limits depending on the final product and the software you use for color correction. So for me the camera is 800 ISO or 40 because it depends on what you do with the signal in postproduction, that said aplying the pure science (recording, after measuring with Spotmeter at 320, a graycard at 320 in camera and doing no corrections in postpro) it doesn´t "fit" in the
ISO that RED labels his camera.
From what i understand what macgregor is presenting is just a monitoring solution: not just for on set but as well for postpro and that in plus is prepared to mach with a spotmeter at 250 ISO . I dont know why that becomes such a big of a trouble.
I will never use this look because I think is something to develop for each proyect but I understand perfectly why they develop it.
One curiosity how do you spot the noise? Is my last not 100% certain with the red, well that and how to make the 2k in the red look sharp. lol If anybody has the answer i promise a nice bottle of whisky or milk.

Sanjin you can have all the personal problems with macgregor, but using the freedom of speech and the propaganda oratory to insult somebody comparing him with Franco (the same as Hitler but in Spain) is just and absolute act of Demagogy and dont pretend to justify a personal selfish act with the populist language, just gets anoying to see all the visual noise you create and insults peoples inteligence.
 
Corcuera said:
Sanjin you can have all the personal problems with macgregor, but using the freedom of speech and the propaganda oratory to insult somebody comparing him with Franco (the same as Hitler but in Spain) is just and absolute act of Demagogy and dont pretend to justify a personal selfish act with the populist language, just gets anoying to see all the visual noise you create and insults peoples inteligence.
Click to expand...

Corcuera,

I didn't insult anybody here and not even Macgregor as you could read it a bit carefully and with a patient.

Actually he wanted "to ban" me and he even "called' for that just because I do have a different opinion with

something that he was telling here. So then I felt under attack and replied as a defender who used a certain comparison in language

that later somebody like you even concluded that was insulting.

I hope we are all here participants from free societies and that means without fear that somebody outside can use any power

to shut you down except the house bosses (or our respectful forum owners).

At the end I do not need something that could rule (*profiles) my creative decision even using RED1 camera.

So I'm different and coming from (conceptual) artist background and mostly breaking the rules...
 
Re ND filters

Re ND filters

Hi Miguel.. Do you still use ND filters for bright exteriors for this profile? Sorry if its stupid question... I'm a drama director with a R1 learning the ropes, god forbid.

Cheers
 
jeff, if i'm not mistaken it should be the same as shooting with 250D.

last year I was cam op on a shoot in the middle of summer in the harsh Ausie bush here in Victoria... in full sun using 250D we needed to be at f32-f64.... and our lens didn't go that far.... and nobody thought to bring ND's.... then the horse bolted and broke the lead actors hand on the first shot of the first day.... fun times :)

so yeah. you'll need some ND's if you plan on shooting in full sun.

where in Aus are you? i'm in melbourne
 
Jeff Asselin said:
Hi Miguel.. Do you still use ND filters for bright exteriors for this profile? Sorry if its stupid question... I'm a drama director with a R1 learning the ropes, god forbid.

Cheers
Click to expand...

The ASA / sensitivity + shutter speed (affected by frame rate) determines exposure.

Basically in direct sunlight on a clear day, you should read (on a light meter) around f/16 at 50 ASA at 24 fps / 1/48th shutter (180 degree shutter angle).

That also conforms to the old "Sunny 16 Rule" in photography, that in direct sun, set the f-stop to f/16 and the shutter speed to 1/(ASA) -- so at 50 ASA, the shutter speed would be 1/50th (more or less the same as 1/48th).

So with 250 ASA, you'd either have to stop the lens down another 2 1/3-stops down from f/16 (just beyond f/32), or change the shutter speed to 1/250th if you wanted to shoot at f/16.

Most lenses don't stop down much beyond f/16 anyway, and in general, you're not supposed to use them even stopped down that much because they are optically better in the middle of the f-stop range. The only exceptions where stopping down to f/16 and deeper would be desirable is if you wanted some sort of super deep-focus effect, or with macro photography, or with very telephoto shots.

So the short answer is, yes, you need ND filters. They should be a standard part of a package when shooting outdoors in daytime.

Now of course, there are times when you'd get less than f/16 on your meter in daylight -- when shooting in backlight, in overcast weather, in the shade, as the light is falling, etc. And there are times when you may want a slightly overexposed look.
 
Jeff ,
The profile doesn´t change the captation of the sensor is just a look that you apply for the dailyes and edition + a help for cinematographers with low knowledge of the red bye afecting the monitoring on LCD + set monitors.
So if you have to place a ND with out the profile you will have to do it with the profile loaded. And the ND´s that you place will depend on how bright is the day vs what diafragm the DP wants (control deep of field and use the best spots of the Lens). I hope that clears you some ...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top