"Professional I/O" Module alternative for Audio

[Peter Weisberg]

EDIT** I see I missed your point about wanting metadata... well, that would be something unique. You can simply have the recorder timestamp the audio data with timecode in the filename, should be easy to find the files you want. you could just set it to chase lock, so when it sees incoming timecode, it rolls, when it doesn't, it stops. assuming that this will be an option in the RED settings, to allow timecode to roll only on record. My recommendation to RED would be to provide a simple dumb module that has a standard Beta slot-in opening on top, to allow the fitting of a Sony, Lectrosonics, etc... wireless receiver such as the Lectro SR... (but non-standard in that it would support stereo audio). That way, no other proprietary gain pots or connector methods would be required. Simply use the technology that is available now. RED is a camera company, not an audio company, and I'm sure they are smart enough to stick to what they do best. FYI, the RED One's audio board is NOT a stellar design, so from an audio standpoint, I feel RED is still at a catch up and learn the standards perspective and not in a position to push something progressive with respect to audio.

Ya basically thats what i'm suggesting except instead of leaving it up to the user to find the right sync there is some form of reference in the metadata that references to the right audio clip at the right time. While red may not be focusing on audio they should focus on audio workflow with a camera. I think there are a lot of great advantages to recording sound seperate from a module built into (or onto in the case of red) the camera. But i also don't like the idea of having to sync hte audio myself which if something goes wrong can be a huge headache and take up hours and hours of time. This is why i think red should consider making a wireless audio module that sends reference data to the camera so that when all the footage and audio are dumped on the computer the footage can lookup its reference audio and everything will already be in sync. The only thing will be working up the coding sync aspect of this, but I'm sure if red did this it would catch on very nicely.

 

[Tom Visser]

Ya basically thats what i'm suggesting except instead of leaving it up to the user to find the right sync there is some form of reference in the metadata that references to the right audio clip at the right time. While red may not be focusing on audio they should focus on audio workflow with a camera. I think there are a lot of great advantages to recording sound seperate from a module built into (or onto in the case of red) the camera. But i also don't like the idea of having to sync hte audio myself which if something goes wrong can be a huge headache and take up hours and hours of time. This is why i think red should consider making a wireless audio module that sends reference data to the camera so that when all the footage and audio are dumped on the computer the footage can lookup its reference audio and everything will already be in sync. The only thing will be working up the coding sync aspect of this, but I'm sure if red did this it would catch on very nicely.

I would be all for this, as long as it plays friendly with the existing professional solutions. Its not going to be cheap, though. 2 channel recorder, mic pres, wireless metadata, timecode, + transport controls... based upon that functionality, the price of comprable parts, my estimate is that it would be about $4k.

 

[Peter Weisberg]

I would be all for this, as long as it plays friendly with the existing professional solutions. Its not going to be cheap, though. 2 channel recorder, mic pres, wireless metadata, timecode, + transport controls... based upon that functionality, the price of comprable parts, my estimate is that it would be about $4k.

what are you referring to when you say existing professional solutions? like plugging in a mixer into one of the channels? As for it being 4k, that sounds a bit on the high end of the estimate, but even if it was 4k initially it would inevitably come down after a little bit, and I could see this being a new standard for digital cinema shooting in the years to come.

the only new technology that needs to be added is the wireless timesync in metadata in the audio and video files. Since the audio could be recorded on the module itself on cheap flash data cards it wouldn't really require large bits of information to be sent wirelessly, just the sync points. If the scarlet is going to have built in wifi already all that would be nessicary is making the wifi end on the module and then perfecting the sync technology when the footage is processed for post.

 

[David Rasberry]

I don't think WiFi could maintain SMPTE sync due to packet delays, but it could transfer metadata.

 

[Ryan Patch]

RED Team-

Just wanted to bring this discussion back to the main point, navigating away from the ideals of wireless audio schenanigans.... all fascinating stuff... but on the more realistic, immediate side...

Stripped-down, simple audio module
3-4 balanced audio inputs
Headphone monitoring
Ways to set levels

Thanks!

 

[Stephen Gentle]

RED Team-

Just wanted to bring this discussion back to the main point, navigating away from the ideals of wireless audio schenanigans.... all fascinating stuff... but on the more realistic, immediate side...

Stripped-down, simple audio module
3-4 balanced audio inputs
Headphone monitoring
Ways to set levels

Thanks!

That would be a good idea, but it might be difficult putting four full-size XLR inputs on a module that was light and small enough for run and gun stuff - maybe just two full size XLR inputs would be better...

 

[Peter Weisberg]

RED Team-

Just wanted to bring this discussion back to the main point, navigating away from the ideals of wireless audio schenanigans.... all fascinating stuff... but on the more realistic, immediate side...

Stripped-down, simple audio module
3-4 balanced audio inputs
Headphone monitoring
Ways to set levels

Thanks!

haha sorry for hijacking your thread a little bit

 

[Michael Schmitt]

That would be a good idea, but it might be difficult putting four full-size XLR inputs on a module that was light and small enough for run and gun stuff - maybe just two full size XLR inputs would be better...

If the modules were small enough, each one could have two full size XLR inputs. Then, if you want more, you can add another module. Right?

... Still would like a limiter, by the way.

 

[Rick Presas]

Slates are your friend.

Syncing audio in post really isnt that hard. Even without slates or timecodes. If youre doing run-and gun stuff, try a random sync point with a "slate equivalent"(my friend who does documentary uses a cap-gun with what he says are very good results for reference)

 

[DCC Erickson]

Slates are your friend.

Syncing audio in post really isnt that hard. Even without slates or timecodes. If youre doing run-and gun stuff, try a random sync point with a "slate equivalent"(my friend who does documentary uses a cap-gun with what he says are very good results for reference)

You can sync to a consonant sound in the dialogue ("t" or "p" are good), a hand slapping a counter, a footfall that you can see onscreen, a phone hanging up. As long as you're in the ball park you can get it done pretty easily.

Lining up your wild track waveform with a scratch track waveform from the camera - already synced - works like a charm.

 

[Dave Blackham]

*thought*

If audio knobs could be integrated, it would be great if they were like the ones on the Sound Devices recorders - recessed, then pop out on press for adjustment, then able to press back in for locking/ergonomics.

Ryan

I think a Redmote Pro or even RedAudiomote may be better control ie a wireless audio control device.

A wireless audio receive unit would be a good move but would have to be very robust, may be use MIMO technology for this. And the Receive unit could be really small.

Really good limiter, definitely, but absolutely no compressor.

 

[Arnold F.]

Wouldn't the fellow responsible for the other half of the project (the Production Mixer) worry about audio? Neither my Sound Devices 702T, 744T nor 788T have a camera on them. Not one. It's never gotten in the way of shooting a film or tv show. Another department manages the cameras.

 

[Rob Castiglione]

I agree there should be a cheaper stripped down version of the i/o module. Lets keep it simple. Two XLR inputs with recessed knobs. Thats it.

 

[Paul Russell]

I have a Rolls MX34 mini mixer for that. It has 2 XLR inputs which I usually use for wireless lavaliere mice, it's battery powered, gives phantom power and has knobs.

I've shot that way with 5D mkii's for a couple of years and it works well. I also use the iPad Slate app for sync and reel logging. As about to receive an Epic I'm hoping that I can apply the same practice.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

The one thing that I keep coming back to for Scarlet is the "I/O Module" and audio capability. For run-and-gun documentary work, obviously it would be vastly superior to have onboard audio capabilities - 2 or 3 inputs, phantom power, good preamps. However, with the "Professional I/O" module, you also get HD-SDI, sync signals, etc.

So, question: can we see a module that just does audio really well?

Please?

How about this: http://www.innocinema.com/product_info.php?cPath=3_29&products_id=158

No Pre-Amp although it sounds like it does have Phantom Power.