Priority...

[chuckt]

I completely agree with you about the fact that if you want something bad enough, you find ways of achieving it.

First you have to decide, if you really need a RED at such great sacrifice. Price of all electronic items go down by 50% every year. If you can wait for another year, you can buy these at half price.
You might also find many used REDs soon on ebay.
Is RED such a great life time investment? May be.

One thing is for sure. If RED play the cards right, and ramp up production and reduce the price of essentials, it can really put SONY and Panasonic out of business. Just like the APPLE II forced BIG Iron IBM to produce PC and then clones forced IBM out of PC business.

RED is still not ready to take on the world. It has to put together an ergonomic compact body with attached sound and LCD and EVF. It has to provide a basic 15 to 100 mm lens and tape drive and software for post as part of the basic package.

If RED does not get its act together soon, SONY and Panasonic with their enormous production and marketing might, may crush RED for good. Both these giants are coming out with competing products at competitive prices in 2008.

I am rooting for RED. I hope RED win the war.

 

[planet e]

i understand, casey, i hope you didn't feel i was attacking you personally and i certainly did not call anyone a whiner, i was just trying to alter a few perceptions about what is and is not possible....

like i indicated previously, i would be interested in hearing more about how this could be done fairly, given that jim has said he will entertain options, rather than more oppositional posts about why this should or should not be done...

 

[Casey Green]

i understand, casey, i hope you didn't feel i was attacking you personally and i certainly did not call anyone a whiner, i was just trying to alter a few perceptions about what is and is not possible....

like i indicated previously, i would be interested in hearing more about how this could be done fairly, given that jim has said he will entertain options, rather than more oppositional posts about why this should or should not be done...

No worries, planet e, and thanks for your candor. I respect what you are doing in taking a risk with a lot riding on the outcome. I certainly would be doing the same if the situation and timing were different for me. But each has their own path, and I know my day will come. All in good time.

For now, I just felt it important to express this point of view. However it plays out will most likely be fair, as RED's track record has proven over and over in such a short amount of time.

cheers,

 

[J.D. Frey]

If RED does not get its act together soon, SONY and Panasonic with their enormous production and marketing might, may crush RED for good. Both these giants are coming out with competing products at competitive prices in 2008.

they'll have to come out with an upgradeable package- red has mentioned sensor upgrades eventually- which means i get to keep all my hardware- in the past the other guys wanted you to purchase significant accessories every time you got a new camera.

 

[Nathan Garofalos]

Maybe if RED ONE owners/ reservation holders would want to trade reservations for a SCARLET rather than their RED ONE. The new camera may be more along the lines of what they are looking for.

 

[Sean R.]

Anyone thinking of trying to cancel their reservation for a Red One just because they want Scarlet- DON'T DO IT. We are talking 2 brilliant cameras here but we are also talking 2 different cameras. All I can say. Just stay tuned and be excited...be very excited.

 

[Nathan Garofalos]

Anyone thinking of trying to cancel their reservation for a Red One just because they want Scarlet- DON'T DO IT. We are talking 2 brilliant cameras here but we are also talking 2 different cameras. All I can say. Just stay tuned and be excited...be very excited.

Sean R.

I agree that RED ONE is an brilliant camera, and im sure that Scarlet will be brilliant as well. But maybe Scarlet is more of an ideal camera for some people and don't need everything the RED ONE has to offer. I was just thinking a little bit. But I cant imagine anyone cancling their order for a RED ONE. For my needs that camera is just about perfect, except for the price...

 

[brandon herman]

Let's also remember that even if we could all afford a RED ONE (breaking open our piggy banks and/or risking our credit) that doesn't mean it's a good idea or the best fit for our situation.

For the types of projects I often shoot, a cinema camera like the RED is just overkill. I sometimes do EPKs and behind-the-scenes shooting, and while it would be great fun to shoot the 'making-of' with a better camera than is actually shooting the movie, that's not always practical. I worked on a reality show about a car body shop, and we were constantly jumping into and out of little sports cars, doing interviews with a driver from the passenger seat. The DVCPRO cams they used at the beginning were always a huge struggle. They were bulky, and intimidated anyone not used to being on a movie set. The DVX-100B we eventually brought in was a lifesaver.

There are other indie film makers and film students on here that are probably in the same position. Those of us without a focus puller and a grip truck, but with a few friends and a lighting kit from Home Depot. (I'm exaggerating...slightly.)

I've been talking up the RED to every single person I know in the film/TV business (granted that's not a lot, but you'd recognize some of the names). And I lust after getting to shoot a TV pilot or a film with one.

But own one myself? Well of course, I wish I was in a position to do so. With employees and a huge client list. But right now it makes far more sense to rent one for a project when I need to and put the other money into the things that will show up on screen.

If I bought one, I'd need to be shooting with it every day on huge projects to justify the cost (not happening right now) or rent it out, and I'm really not looking to become a rental house, or risk my gear on someone else's set.

But a Scarlet would be perfect. Small size, great quality. Works with the $400 baby jib arm I used with my XL1 to great effect. Works with my homemade skateboard dolly. In fact, it would be a far better investment for me to own 2 Scarlets rather than 1 RED.

So please remember that not having a reservation doesn't reflect a lack of belief in the RED ONE, nor is it a matter of "not wanting it badly enough to get the money together." (I'm paraphrasing a few posts; that's not a direct quote.)

 

[Christian Edwards]

jim,

Scarlet in for free with my Red one reservation and ill get a Red Digital Cinema tattoo

 

[Daymon Hoffman]

If i really wanted to, i could buy a Ferrari. If i REALLY REALLY wanted to i could buy two. But does it make sense to focus such effort there? No. (not for the majority) Does this make me less loyal or less dedicated? nope, not in the slightest! Last time i checked dedication doesn't come from the wallet. So enough with those comments! yer'makin'me frown at the shallowness!

It doesn't really bother me RED ONE rez holders get some kind of first-dibs. I have a HV20 that creates awesome images for the price to do me while i read all the reviews and wait for production to catch up. Of course i'm a technologist and i REALLY appreciate quality so if i find out its the "shiznit" for me then i'll want i ASAP but i'm realistic.

Money is like breasts... the more you have.. the more you can flash around. Even with a fully enclosed shirt its still visible!

 

[Kholi Hicks]

I respect the good-natured thought...

If the people holding reservations are all behind RED, then they'll be just as eager this time around to get in line first as they were last time.

I hope that somethin' on this Priority list turns around before NAB.

 

[Casey Green]

But own one myself? Well of course, I wish I was in a position to do so. With employees and a huge client list. But right now it makes far more sense to rent one for a project when I need to and put the other money into the things that will show up on screen.

Well put.

...If i really wanted to, i could buy a Ferrari. If i REALLY REALLY wanted to i could buy two...

hmmm... This analogy does not make sense here. We're talking about affordability (yes, RED ONE is EXTREMELY affordable for what it is!), the ability to obtain a high-end professional tool, and the difference between buying and renting it. A luxury sports car is usually not an item one purchases just to rent out or start a business with.

Either way, I believe this all is a moot point now, due to Jim's recent post stating they would not be taking reservations. (and that Scarlet would most likely ship only when completed.)

(Titled "Don't get confused")
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7285

I have a feeling now that, feature wise, Scarlet may be less of a camcorder, and perhaps more like a compact 2K or 4K finder that can record. We'll see.

 

[sparkhope]

Sounds like the quantities are going to be such that it may be a moot point who has a reservation...anyone who wants this camera will likely get it and hopefully in short order. Having said that, I personally think it should be available to everyone on a first come, first serve basis. There are many reasons outside of "true belief" why a person may not have jumped on board with RED One from day one, some of which have already been mentioned here. While it's nice to have preferential treatment, I think there is a limit to what early adopters should expect when it comes to brand new products that are not accessories, and in the long run I think RED will build more good will by not continuing to reinforce this separation.

Just my opinion, and I speak for only myself. And having stated it, I'll take two Scarlet cameras please...

Well put. Agreed. It should be a first come first served basis. Every new product should provide an opportunity for the loyal to prove their faith in REDligion.

And yes, I'll take one please.

 

[J Clark]

Now that I spend my evenings keeping up on the red posts and wait with anticipation for my Red to arrive this week, I must acknowledge that this is my first cult membership.

Red is also an appropriate name considering we're on the bleeding edge, and don't followers usually have to spill some of the red stuff to join? So I guess Scarlet could also be considered cult-like...or is that cult-lite..

Early adopters have earned a first shot at Scarlet for throwing down a deposit and believing in the Red vision - It's greatly appreciated to be recognized for this. After all, these are the people who committed to a possibility and laid down more than $3 million in the form of blind cash faith - it's business. Clearly, the response told Jannard that there is in fact a market for his creation. Window shoppers just don't fund a company.

 

[planet e]

I think there is a limit to what early adopters should expect when it comes to brand new products that are not accessories

let's clarify, jim started this thread himself, offering this possibility (and we have no specifics about what he even means)...as i said, i am already impressed with the return on my original thousand dollar investment. these decisions will be the result of the value that he puts on the original support for the RED project, not on what we think he should or shouldn't do...

i'm satisfied and impressed with what he has already done, and thankful that he would consider an additional gesture.

no one said anything about "expecting" anything...the origins of this thread was an OFFER, not a demand! followed by an outcry against the "demands" of early reservation holders and the insistence that message board speculation is equitable to a financial stake. it's not.

original reservations were open from NAB 2006 until October of that year--six months is plenty of time to find a thousand dollars, secured by a 110% money-back guarantee...what differentiated reservation holders was not money-- because the original amount itself was negligible--but the basic act of putting your money where your mouth is...

 

[Aiden Cornwell]

I agree with Redone owners Reservation holders getting first priority. I do not own a Red one or have a reservation (not in a postion to spend 30k on a camera) however I firmly believe all those who put out the money deserve them before others. My only request is that there might be a way for those who can not make it to NAB still get a chance to get in line with a reservation for one of these cameras.

 

[Fence sitter]

From someone half a world away it would be nice if at the NAB booth those wanting to buy could do so electronically so that those not there had equal opportunity to squeeze in line. I for one think that I'll buy but would like even chances of early delivery in a market where small camcorder style cameras are pay a far better return to early adopters before the market gets saturated by an oversupply as it catches on.

Another thing: and RED could do this easily is to make sure that the web site carries all of the appropriate information on line at the point of NAB announcement. Once again making the playing field level for those unable to attend NAB.

Fence

 

[Nathan Garofalos]

I agree, id like to be able to purchase it electronically as well.

 

[Fence sitter]

electronically and concurrently.....no barriers to amrket no matter where you are.

 

[Fence sitter]

sorry typo...

electronically and concurrently.....no barriers to market no matter where you are.