Priority...

[Nathan Garofalos]

What college do you go to?

 

[Zack Birlew]

UNLV, why?

 

[Nathan Garofalos]

I was wondering what film students at what schools were using for equipment.

 

[Zack Birlew]

Oh, well, I wish we were using better stuff. The best is DVX's for the students and the film department keeps an HVX and Varicam for their own projects. I'm the only one getting a RED as far as I know. A DP buddy of mine had a chance to work with a RED a few months back, besides me and him we're the only ones who have actually seen the RED in person, everyone else is just now learning what the RED actually is!

 

[Nathan Garofalos]

I know what you mean. I try to talk with people, and they think I'm like speaking a foreign language. I told them I worked on 2 sets with a RED, and they automatically thought it was a lie cause they didn't know it existed and thought I made it up. I wish I could afford a RED ONE. Your lucky. I'm going to purchase a Scarlet if its within my price range and somewhat what I would like it to be. I shoot on an XL2, and that's SD... Do you have your own lights you can use?

Scarlet would be a good camera for the student filmmaker, if its cheap enough.

 

[Craig Bowman]

I was wondering what film students at what schools were using for equipment.

If your wondering are any schools going to have their students using Red anytime soon and teaching D-Cinema courses?

Its going to depend on the administration.

At the local Centre for Arts and Technology here in Kelowna, the answer is a no brainer. Just try and stop them! (Reds are arriving, students are estatic)

 

[sceneeast]

Preferences for red one res. holders would be totally justified but a real bummer, you could be first on the list for a scarlet and find yourself #3500 (spoken like a true non red one reservation holder of course- dang)

I agree, but see the justification in giving the owner’s/reservation holders first choice to get Scarlet. But they should only be allow to order the number of Scarlet’s equal to number of RED One’s they have or that are on order, not in quantity, on the first go around in order to give the rest of us a chance of getting a Scarlet in a reasonable time frame.

Bob

 

[J.D. Frey]

The typical early adopter assumes great risk and achieves great reward... sometimes.

 

[planet e]

I agree, but see the justification in giving the owner’s/reservation holders first choice to get Scarlet. But they should only be allow to order the number of Scarlet’s equal to number of RED One’s they have or that are on order, not in quantity, on the first go around in order to give the rest of us a chance of getting a Scarlet in a reasonable time frame.

Bob

that seems fair, as a holder of 2 reservations, i would even go so far as to extend the option to only the early reservation holders who entered in the first, original open reservation round.

i have 2 reservations, one i made in the original open reservation round and one that i made when jim re-opened reservations at a later date. i would say that only the 1st reservation should actually qualify for any preferential treatment, because it was made at a time of pure blind faith, the other one came a little later, when it all seemed more ready to be realized (and therefore involved less risk...)

that would put only roughly 1000 cameras ahead of the pack, which, if jim is planning to have ramped production before a release, as he says, would put the SCARLETs into the open market only about 2 months later.

that doesn't seem so bad....(especially to early reservation holders who have been patient on a scale of years. waiting an extra 2 months is nothing!....)

just some ideas....

certainly the $2500 rebate and the 110% money-back guarantees are reward enough for me, and if that's all jim gave us, i would have no complaints whatsoever!

i do, however, take issue with people equating their message board speculation, well after the fact of the camera's delivery, with an actual investment.

i don't care how poor you are, $1,000 down with a 110% guaranteed return, is affordable to just about any adult in this country and certainly any indie. it may involve risk, it may involve sacrifice, but anyone who can't put down $1,000 with the promise of getting $1,100 back, while they meanwhile try to find the money while the camera is being developed, just isn't as invested as the person who does.

playing the game is not the same as watching from the sidelines, whether the game is blackjack, football, or RED-watching...

 

[vincelucero]

Some good ideas planet e. I agree that those who dropped the $1K deposit at the first round should get first crack.

But 110% money back, really? I didn't know that. Maybe if I order a few Reds and return them all I could make enough for a lens.

Which leads me to this point: The camera is not the only thing you need to buy. We're talking $17,500 for the body...and another $10-40K for accessories. $5K tripod, $3K mattebox, $1500 filters, $1K follow focus, etc., etc. And lenses are an entirely different ballgame. I know a lot of indies who can't afford a $30K camera package. (At least you can buy 3 Reds for the price of one Sony F900).

Scarlet on the other hand may well be a complete package for under $14K. Anything under $8K and Sony's gonna be pissed!!!

 

[vincelucero]

That said, to all those indies out there who don't have enough, get some friends together and form a Scarlet or Red coalition. Share the costs but try to keep it under 4 members. Draw up papers to make sure you all get equal time on your projects and make sure there is a clause that stipulates what happens when one person wants out of the deal.

Keep it legal at the beginning so there's no slippery slope. You may think it's all good and your pal would never turn on you. But I've seen good friends gone bad and it's ugly.

 

[Kholi Hicks]

There are many believers that just can't quite afford a RED ONE just yet, but were along for the ride from the start.

Please don't forget us.

Uhm, yeah.


The thought that current reservation owners are the ones to get first cracks at reservations is kinda ... odd? Noble, loyal, but that's kinda unfair to the rest of the community that couldn't afford the 30k+ plus investment.

I hope this definitely changes by NAB, because I'll be there camping out.

 

[Casey Green]

...i don't care how poor you are, $1,000 down with a 110% guaranteed return, is affordable to just about any adult in this country and certainly any indie. it may involve risk, it may involve sacrifice, but anyone who can't put down $1,000 with the promise of getting $1,100 back, while they meanwhile try to find the money while the camera is being developed, just isn't as invested as the person who does...

It's not about the $1000. Its about the $17,500 + Lens(es) + Accessories. Many basic setups come to be in to $35k-$55k range (not including post workflow).

I don't go out reserving Steadicam Rigs or Cranes just because I really want to have them and can afford the down payment (refundable or not). Especially when there is another method to achieving the same goals, called renting. Don't get me wrong, owning a RED ONE is a dream of mine and many others here that just are not currently in the financial position to pull the trigger.

I don't think that should have anything to do with where folks like us fall in line for a more affordable RED. I know many here are extremely invested in RED, and are in the same boat... a certain guy named Brook comes to mind.

:red_bandana:

 

[J.D. Frey]

I don't know- people pay more than 55k for a car that won't have the same kind of creative (and money making) potential as the RED One- There are lots of options for a custom lease on equipment with a low percentage rate and low buyout at the end (and by low I mean it's usually one dollar- even on expensive equipment). You can also find investors- or build the cost into a budget for a project, share the cost with a group of filmmakers, etc.

My point is that if there were someone who really wanted the gear it could happen.

 

[planet e]

yes exactly, and look how resourceful brook has been, he's had his hands on RED more than almost anyone--and that is my point. just because you think you can't afford something doesn't mean anything.

if i had my cameras today, and someone really hungry asked me if they could break their neck working for me, shooting RED, and showed that they were just as serious and trustworthy and dedicated as i am, i'd let them shoot my REDs, too. those people are rare...brook doesn't make claims about how dedicated he has been, he doesn't need to, he just does it through his actions and builds his reputation. and he has reaped the benefits. i look high and low for people like that to participate in my business, but, honestly, they are not that easy to find.

also, casey, you are talking about a pro package. part of the problem with hanging out on web forums is that they give you a bad case of the "i wants"--the truth is that you could probably shoot this thing with screw-on filters, a bogen tripod, and a nikon mount with a $1,000 lens (or cheaper...) and get great results, if you are skilled at lighting, framing, composing, exposing, and focusing. you don't need a $5K tripod, a cine lens (well, you do until one of these still cam mounts is released), and you don't need a mattebox.

i couldn't afford this either, when i signed up for it. i was set to stretch my way to a single stripped-down RED, exactly as i described it above and add to it when i could afford new parts. but now the money is in the bank waiting for two delivery of 2 REDs, accessorized. i won't own all the lenses that i want, until i can afford them, and one of them won't have a mattebox and will have to live on the cheapie bogen 516 set-up until i can afford better. but the tricked out RED and the minimalist RED will both do their jobs equally.

if you really want something (not just say you want something, that takes no effort at all, but really want it, with all of your energy aligned towards obtaining that desire...), then you find a way.

 

[J.D. Frey]

well said planet e

and Casey- i hope you don't think I was being harsh- if you want info on one of the leasing companies I've used (lease sounds scary it's really rent to own) let me know.

Also i read earlier that the release of the Scarlet will be almost simultaneous, so the waiting period won't be years like it was in our case for the Red One.

 

[Casey Green]

yes exactly, and look how resourceful brook has been, he's had his hands on RED more than almost anyone--and that is my point. just because you think you can't afford something doesn't mean anything.

if i had my cameras today, and someone really hungry asked me if they could break their neck working for me, shooting RED, and showed that they were just as serious and trustworthy and dedicated as i am, i'd let them shoot my REDs, too. those people are rare...brook doesn't make claims about how dedicated he has been, he doesn't need to, he just does it through his actions and builds his reputation. and he has reaped the benefits. i look high and low for people like that to participate in my business, but, honestly, they are not that easy to find.

also, casey, you are talking about a pro package. part of the problem with hanging out on web forums is that they give you a bad case of the "i wants"--the truth is that you could probably shoot this thing with screw-on filters, a bogen tripod, and a nikon mount with a $1,000 lens (or cheaper...) and get great results, if you are skilled at lighting, framing, composing, exposing, and focusing. you don't need a $5K tripod, a cine lens (well, you do until one of these still cam mounts is released), and you don't need a mattebox.

i couldn't afford this either, when i signed up for it. i was set to stretch my way to a single stripped-down RED, exactly as i described it above and add to it when i could afford new parts. but now the money is in the bank waiting for two delivery of 2 REDs, accessorized. i won't own all the lenses that i want, until i can afford them, and one of them won't have a mattebox and will have to live on the cheapie bogen 516 set-up until i can afford better. but the tricked out RED and the minimalist RED will both do their jobs equally.

if you really want something (not just say you want something, that takes no effort at all, but really want it, with all of your energy aligned towards obtaining that desire...), then you find a way.

I'm afraid your reply has veered off track of the point I was trying to make.

I completely agree with you about the fact that if you want something bad enough, you find ways of achieving it. I'm am not arguing that point and feel you inadvertently mistook what I tried to summarize clearly. It's okay, that happens, but I don't feel like anyone in my position should be made to look like a whiner.

I'm sure there are folks out there who are just along for the ride. But that's not where I'm coming from. I've dedicated a lot of time learning about the RED ONE so that when the day comes when I do use it, I will hit the ground running. I have friends with Cameras now and more coming soon that I will hopefully have access to at very reasonable rates, and was invited to participate in the recent LART tests, so again, I know what you are talking about regarding pursuing something and finding ways...

The reality is that some people (for reasons only known to them) just are not in a position to purchase the RED ONE Camera right now, and will be renting (or working for someone who has one) until that time comes. I'm just not convinced that that is a good enough reason to keep those of us interested in Scarlet from being able to put in a reservation as soon as everyone else. In fact, it's almost ironic that the lower priced Camera (I assume) will likely be quicker/easier to get for those with more cash or credit available (many reservation holders).

One last point. I do think that the early adopters should be rewarded in some way. Perhaps a discount, or some other creative way for Jim to show his appreciation.

Anyway, this is just food for thought. Perhaps I'll be able to afford the RED ONE before Scarlet is out. But I'd still want a low Scarlet reservation!

 

[J.D. Frey]

Well that's true- we did all get a $2,500.00 discount on some serious accessories- but I'll take a place in line too.

 

[J.D. Frey]

I thought of something else too- you can kind of think of it as a customer reward- or even a stock purchase. sometimes companies make stock available to a select group of people inside the company or whatever


Either way it's a great marketing tool- people are arguing over the privilege of potentially buying one. That is amazing!

 

[Nathan Garofalos]

We know nothing about it, and we keep debating on who gets first dibs, and why you get dibs... lol.