PRICING & BACKORDERS

[Elsie N]

Just had a thought about pricing and backorders. There's no doubt there are professionals out there using RED products now who have to have what they need when they need it. But there's also Indie types who would like to have it now but at an affordable price.

Solution: Red could set an Indie price for their products and even give a customer a number for their place in line. If a well heeled production company suddenly needs that particular part, they could pay a premium for that customer's place in line. The Indie customer would then be bumped to the back of the line. When the Indie customer gets bumped a second time and goes to the back of the line again, that becomes their final bump. After that, the Indie g-uy/irl gets the part at the Indie price and cannot be bumped again. The third time's a charm.

Thoughts?... Improvements?

EDIT: I would like to amend my original idea to moving the Indie-priced buyer who gets bumped, that he-she should only be bumped back to being ahead of the next Indie-priced back-order, for a total of two or three bumps before getting the Indie priced item.

 

[Curran Giddens]

Sounds like a major hassle.

Just do what I do.... Place your order as soon as it goes online for any product you think you may need. You can always cancel it if the backorder wait becomes too long or if you later decide you don't need it anymore.

 

[Jonathan Stevenson]

Sounds like a major hassle.

Just do what I do.... Place your order as soon as it goes online for any product you think you may need. You can always cancel it if the backorder wait becomes too long or if you later decide you don't need it anymore.

No wonder everything is on backorder

 

[Justin Marx]

No wonder everything is on backorder

Lol

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Solution: Red could set an Indie price for their products and even give a customer a number for their place in line. If a well heeled production company suddenly needs that particular part, they could pay a premium for that customer's place in line. The Indie customer would then be bumped to the back of the line. When the Indie customer gets bumped a second time and goes to the back of the line again, that becomes their final bump. After that, the Indie g-uy/irl gets the part at the Indie price and cannot be bumped again. The third time's a charm.

Thoughts?... Improvements?

All due respect, but I think that is one of the worst ideas I've ever encountered. I think everything should just be first-come, first-served.

The exception being accessories which can only be used by a limited group. By that I mean items like the DSMC side handle and REDMOTE. Sure people can order them, but it would make sense for RED to ship them out in order of camera delivery date since only people with cameras (in this case EPICs at the moment) can use them. There's always going to be a number of people with fast trigger fingers and fear of lengthy back-orders, who will order anything the second it goes in the store. Whether or not they can use it anytime soon. The Canon mount is a prime example of that. I personally know of several people who are in Stage 3, 3.5, 4... who have ordered a Canon mount, just to make sure they have it for whenever they can get a camera. Based on past history with certain components, there is an element of logic to their thinking. However, this thinking is also part of the problem...

 

[Mark Toia]

How about like McDonalds... If you wait to long, you get another one free.. )))))

 

[Elsie N]

All due respect, but I think that is one of the worst ideas I've ever encountered. I think everything should just be first-come, first-served.

The exception being accessories which can only be used by a limited group. By that I mean items like the DSMC side handle and REDMOTE. Sure people can order them, but it would make sense for RED to ship them out in order of camera delivery date since only people with cameras (in this case EPICs at the moment) can use them. There's always going to be a number of people with fast trigger fingers and fear of lengthy back-orders, who will order anything the second it goes in the store. Whether or not they can use it anytime soon. The Canon mount is a prime example of that. I personally know of several people who are in Stage 3, 3.5, 4... who have ordered a Canon mount, just to make sure they have it for whenever they can get a camera. Based on past history with certain components, there is an element of logic to their thinking. However, this thinking is also part of the problem...

Wouldn't it be nice if you could bump someone off by paying a premium? When someone orders, they either opt for the guaranteed first delivery price or the up-in-the-air more affordable price. Just trying to find a way to serve all creatures, big and small.

 

[Jonathan Stevenson]

Wouldn't it be nice if you could bump someone off by paying a premium? When someone orders, they either opt for the guaranteed first delivery price or the up-in-the-air more affordable price. Just trying to find a way to serve all creatures, big and small.

Everyone would pay the premium. I sure as hell would. And then all the folks that can't afford the premium will never get their stuff. How would you feel knowing you got bumped by someone with more money that you?

 

[Elsie N]

Everyone would pay the premium. I sure as hell would. And then all the folks that can't afford the premium will never get their stuff. How would you feel knowing you got bumped by someone with more money that you?

If you get bumped twice and go to the back of the Indie-pricing line, then the third time you get the item at the Indie price when your number comes up. I'm talking about significant differences in price so the Indie g-uy/irl feels it is worth their while to wait.
EDIT: See edit below.

Not sure if I like this Eisie, seems to run contrary to what Red has been about to date. I for one have saved and budgeted for certain Red products and paying a premium
just to reserve my place in the Que rankles a bit with me. I say place your order, pay the price and take your chance.
Seems like the fairest way. Indi-Pricing may seem like a good idea but not sure how this would work in practice, and it could be messy.
Maybe an educational discount for Colleges and Film Schools Ok !

...

My 2 cents

Being an Indie guy, I understand wanting to be on a *par with the big boys. But hoping to be a big boy someday, I will want Rank-(to)-Hath-Its-Privileges. By allowing RED to price products at small margins for those willing to trade time for money (the Indie crowd) and be made up for by those who trade money for time, I think both worlds can be well-served.

*As things stand, the Indie style users have an advantage over the larger productions because the small producer has more time to sit on these boards and quickly order when a product becomes available. I can see why most here prefer the status quo.

EDIT: I would like to amend my original idea to moving the Indie-priced buyer who gets bumped, so that he-she should only be bumped back to being ahead of the next Indie-priced back-order, for a total of two or three bumps.

 

[Bing Bailey]

this will just lead to people ordering everything and then trading places in line for a premium themselves. bad idea

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Wouldn't it be nice if you could bump someone off by paying a premium? When someone orders, they either opt for the guaranteed first delivery price or the up-in-the-air more affordable price. Just trying to find a way to serve all creatures, big and small.

Nope. Because many would just pay the premium. Too many other factors to consider and then imagine all the accusations that RED would be intentionally controlling supply just to rack up income from those willing to pay the premium. In the end, the only ones who wouldn't pay the premium are those with appropriated budgets -- education, for example, and many individuals or small boutique type customers. If they were to adopt a system where you pay a premium to establish, or even just keep, your place in line, I don't see where that would set well with the masses. Even those who can pay. ...May as well just auction off each place in line, every time a new product is announced.

Supply shortages and waiting in line suck, we can all agree on that. But I don't see this being the solution. I've seen similar solutions implemented in the past. They always cause more problems than they solve.

this will just lead to people ordering everything and then trading places in line for a premium themselves. bad idea

A fine example of one such problem. We already see some of this as it is.

 

[Zeb B]

StubHub, eBay - buy then resell.

There is no need for a manufacturer who has 100% demand for their products to screw with this topic

 

[Elsie N]

Nope. Because many would just pay the premium. Too many other factors to consider and then imagine all the accusations that RED would be intentionally controlling supply just to rack up income from those willing to pay the premium. In the end, the only ones who wouldn't pay the premium are those with appropriated budgets -- education, for example, and many individuals or small boutique type customers. If they were to adopt a system where you pay a premium to establish, or even just keep, your place in line, I don't see where that would set well with the masses. Even those who can pay. ...May as well just auction off each place in line, every time a new product is announced.

Supply shortages and waiting in line suck, we can all agree on that. But I don't see this being the solution. I've seen similar solutions implemented in the past. They always cause more problems than they solve.



A fine example of one such problem. We already see some of this as it is.

I guess I see it differently because that was how I envisioned my audio/video business if I should be forced to open one. My plan is to allow an individual, company, entity.... to lock in place a firm shoot date. But to insure I serve the less well-heeled and stay busy, I would allow them to schedule for a lower price with the caveat that they could be bumped off by a better paying customer.

I actually hatched this plan from the lower-paying customer viewpoint. From the perspective of being a RED customer, I would like an opportunity to trade waiting time for a lower price. And RED the company would still make their profit by serving those with the means, quicker. But I guess I'm the only bargain hunter on the forum. ;-)

 

[Stephen Williams]

Everyone would pay the premium. I sure as hell would. And then all the folks that can't afford the premium will never get their stuff. How would you feel knowing you got bumped by someone with more money that you?

Lots of things work like that! Look what happened to houses.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

No wonder everything is on backorder

Funny - and true!

We all get disgruntled by people who order stuff and don't have either cameras or actual projects to shoot but hoard the stuff waiting until they do -

But that is the name of the game -

As RED sells this stuff like hotcakes, they'll be able to continue ramping up production and distribution lines. It's really a matter of time before these issues sort themselves out and we can order stuff off-the-shelf. If they are going to add more infrastructure, let it be towards pushing product out the door, not towards tracking tiered pricing, which would take resources away from these areas....

 

[David Battistella]

This is a very provocative post Elsie.

Are you suggesting that a class system be put in place or that there is one in place already?

Creating a class system of customers is a bad idea, but it works well for credit card companies maybe.

David

 

[Zeb B]

Anything that has a 0% chance of implementation by RED is just generic internet talk. This topic will quickly descend into a debate about class warfare, haves/havenots blah, blah, blah

If there is truly a market for product needed immediately it will be addressed by an aftermarket party like a Rental House, eBay or FS/WTB. Need a Canon mount for a shoot next week? Post a rich WTB offer. The need for RED getting involved in this topic again is 0%. They are focused on building/shipping stuff and don't need to set up a new department to do what the aftermarket capitalist system already does very well.

 

[Elsie N]

This is a very provocative post Elsie.

Are you suggesting that a class system be put in place or that there is one in place already?

Creating a class system of customers is a bad idea, but it works well for credit card companies maybe.

David

Hadn't really thought of it in terms of class. Just affordability. But in reference to class, I remember a friend of mine ribbing his cousin (by marriage) that when the ribee's father in law died he was going to leave all his money to the ribee's dumb brother-in-laws. The ribee, who was an astute businessman, just laughed and stated "No matter. I'll have it all in a few months time."

This says to me that there are no classes, just different levels of intelligence and ambition.

I think any company that sells to professionals is justified in taking take care of the big customers needs first and foremost. If a lesser customer (like myself) wants that same treatment, grow. One customer who buys everything is worth 10 of me to the bottom line of the company. But I would much rather have that defined as public policy by a company, i.e. the pricing method I have outlined, than have it being done surreptitiously. RED has been very democratic as far as I can tell in the treatment of their customers. I think it was a loyalty thing. But this company is becoming world renowned and that means big productions don't want to hear "well, you just have to wait in line for the hoarders to get theirs." What I have proposed would let the hoarders get their products at a reduced price after the ones willing to pay full price and who only buy as needed, get the pieces they need as soon as they become available.

Remember, Jim said from now on they expect a perpetual state of backorder.

 

[David Battistella]

Anything that has a 0% chance of implementation by RED is just generic internet talk. This topic will quickly descend into a debate about class warfare, haves/havenots blah, blah, blah

If there is truly a market for product needed immediately it will be addressed by an aftermarket party like a Rental House, eBay or FS/WTB. Need a Canon mount for a shoot next week? Post a rich WTB offer. The need for RED getting involved in this topic again is 0%. They are focused on building/shipping stuff and don't need to set up a new department to do what the aftermarket capitalist system already does very well.

Totally agree.

David

 

[David Battistella]

Hadn't really thought of it in terms of class. Just affordability. But in reference to class, I remember a friend of mine ribbing his cousin (by marriage) that when the ribee's father in law died he was going to leave all his money to the ribee's dumb brother-in-laws. The ribee, who was an astute businessman, just laughed and stated "No matter. I'll have it all in a few months time."

This says to me that there are no classes, just different levels of intelligence and ambition.

I think any company that sells to professionals is justified in taking take care of the big customers needs first and foremost. If a lesser customer (like myself) wants that same treatment, grow. One customer who buys everything is worth 10 of me to the bottom line of the company. But I would much rather have that defined as public policy by a company, i.e. the pricing method I have outlined, than have it being done surreptitiously. RED has been very democratic as far as I can tell in the treatment of their customers. I think it was a loyalty thing. But this company is becoming world renowned and that means big productions don't want to hear "well, you just have to wait in line for the hoarders to get theirs." What I have proposed would let the hoarders get their products at a reduced price after the ones willing to pay full price and who only buy as needed, get the pieces they need as soon as they become available.

Remember, Jim said from now on they expect a perpetual state of backorder.

I think it's just going to be up to RED to serve their customers. It's really just that simple. They need no public policy on how they want to do that.

David