Pretty bummed by the lack of audio. . .

[Stephen Pruitt]

I can't deny my feelings.

I'm not at all happy that the Raven doesn't have the ability to allow XLR audio inputs.

Yes, we record double-system, but it's so much easier to edit using audio from line-ins out of a mixer than to import the files separately and then sync.

What was RED thinking?

Stephen

 

[Phil Holland]

I can't deny my feelings.

I'm not at all happy that the Raven doesn't have the ability to allow XLR audio inputs.

Yes, we record double-system, but it's so much easier to edit using audio from line-ins out of a mixer than to import the files separately and then sync.

What was RED thinking?

RED was thinking to have Expanders and/or Modules from themselves or 3rd party developers to allow for full size XLR or "other" options.

At the moment the REDVOLT Expander is the thing many will look for as it has full size XLR ports. Mark's OMOD will be an option as well.

Most of us early Weapon folks are simply using wireless to line in which keeps the camera very small. You can use wireless w/ phantom power + XLR btw to record single source audio as well.

 

[Tom Dowler]

Really??

add this: http://www.red.com/store/products/dsmc2-redvolt-expander

Yes, pricey, the Raven *is* entry-level, so of course there are bells & whistles missing by default.

And if you're using any of the I/O modules they have a stereo 3.5mm in - pretty easy to make or buy a 2 XLR -> stereo 3.5mm cable and run audio in that way.

Also worth noting that even this entry-level camera records audio at 24-bit/48khz. Which is awesome and not something you'll see on, for example, the Canon C100 (16-bit only)

 

[Alexander Thomson]

You can add I/O modules as you need them, from 1st OR 3rd parties. The user base is diverse, and for every person that uses XLRs every day, there are many others who shoot dual system and would never use on-board audio.

There's something for everyone in the DSMC system, it's just up to you to decide what you need.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

A $4000 module isn't exactly a workable option for many budgets. Are there any 3rd party solutions for XLR inputs?

Stephen

 

[Nathan DuMoulin]

A $4000 module isn't exactly a workable option for many budgets. Are there any 3rd party solutions for XLR inputs?

Stephen

OMOD XLR I/O module ($2500) or Action Battleship I/O module (Price TBD).

Or you could always use an adapter type solution, like the WC A-BOX ($200).

 

[Bob Gundu]

Plenty of stereo mini jack to XLR cables out there.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Yes, we record double-system, but it's so much easier to edit using audio from line-ins out of a mixer than to import the files separately and then sync.

It costs a few bucks a day to just hire an assistant editor and have them sync everything up. It's literally a hundred bucks if you get a talented student working part-time. (Really good people will naturally cost more.) Organizing footage and creating bins takes longer than syncing. Syncing is less than 1 minute per take; 200 takes a day requires a little more than 3 hours of work -- less if you're good at it. It's not that hard.

The advantages of recording outside the camera include:

1) the sound mixer can devote 100% of their attention to audio levels and problems on set.

2) dialogue levels have to constantly be adjusted because of differences in mic position, the actor's read of the lines, and the nature of the scene

3) the sound mixer has the capability of recording 4, 8, even 12 channels of audio or more for complex scenes. You're much more greatly limited by fewer channels on a camera

4) the quality of the audio sections of almost all cameras (including high-end models like Alexa, Canon, Red, and Sony) are not as good as the audio circuitry of good sound recorders

5) with a separate recorder, you can record additional lines of dialogue, wild tracks, and sound effects, even when the camera is not running.

My observation is that the camera operator and DP already have their hands full just worrying about the lighting, the exposure, the lenses, camera movement, batteries, and data use. Making them responsible for sound on top of everything else is too much.

I get that there are hazardous situations or extreme documentary settings (like warfare or undercover police work) where you have to have a minimal crew and a sound person might be expendable. But I don't think there's an excuse for this in scripted production.

 

[Doug Beatty]

Did the DSMC² bodies get switchable mic/line inputs? One of my biggest gripes about DSMC bodies is having mic level input only, and I have yet to find any explanation as to why this decision was made.

It's almost as if RED is encouraging you to record sound on a dedicated recorder (and I like that mantra)

 

[Patrick Tresch]

RCX TC synch

RCX TC synch

Have you tried to TC synch in RCX?

If you have TC locked in. You can synch a bin in RCX instanteanously without the need of external soft headache, and export to an editing format with the orignal sound.
Iv'e used this with great success.

Pat

 

[Craig Meadows]

Wooden Camera A-Box. Better yet, feed the A-Box from a Sound Devices MixPre-D. This is how we have fed our 1DC for 3 years with zero issues (and plan to use the same set up on a raven).

 

[Brice LeCarre]

It costs a few bucks a day to just hire an assistant editor and have them sync everything up. It's literally a hundred bucks if you get a talented student working part-time. (Really good people will naturally cost more.) Organizing footage and creating bins takes longer than syncing. Syncing is less than 1 minute per take; 200 takes a day requires a little more than 3 hours of work -- less if you're good at it. It's not that hard.

The advantages of recording outside the camera include:

1) the sound mixer can devote 100% of their attention to audio levels and problems on set.

2) dialogue levels have to constantly be adjusted because of differences in mic position, the actor's read of the lines, and the nature of the scene

3) the sound mixer has the capability of recording 4, 8, even 12 channels of audio or more for complex scenes. You're much more greatly limited by fewer channels on a camera

4) the quality of the audio sections of almost all cameras (including high-end models like Alexa, Canon, Red, and Sony) are not as good as the audio circuitry of good sound recorders

5) with a separate recorder, you can record additional lines of dialogue, wild tracks, and sound effects, even when the camera is not running.

My observation is that the camera operator and DP already have their hands full just worrying about the lighting, the exposure, the lenses, camera movement, batteries, and data use. Making them responsible for sound on top of everything else is too much.

I get that there are hazardous situations or extreme documentary settings (like warfare or undercover police work) where you have to have a minimal crew and a sound person might be expendable. But I don't think there's an excuse for this in scripted production.

Pluraleyes from Red Giant Software will batch sync clips in seconds
No clapper or timecode required.
I have been using it since the first version. It is an amazing piece of software.

 

[Alexander Thomson]

Pluraleyes from Red Giant Software will batch sync clips in seconds
No clapper or timecode required.
I have been using it since the first version. It is an amazing piece of software.

Works but be sure to rely on it only when the scratch track & sync track sound very similar. I had an acquaintance of mine shoot a day's worth of footage at 100-300mm outside with only a button mic on the Scarlet. PluralEyes couldn't put them together.

PluralEyes works incredibly well if you're able to feed the mix into the camera itself, or if your scratch mic is in the right place getting a clean signal.

 

[Nick Fury]

Works but be sure to rely on it only when the scratch track & sync track sound very similar. I had an acquaintance of mine shoot a day's worth of footage at 100-300mm outside with only a button mic on the Scarlet. PluralEyes couldn't put them together.

PluralEyes works incredibly well if you're able to feed the mix into the camera itself, or if your scratch mic is in the right place getting a clean signal.

Hi Alexander!

Yep. That is the reason I use my Zaxcom ERX to output one 1/2 of the feed, from the Nomad's Audio mix to one of the input tracks on my Stealth, whilst I output the other 1/2 of the ERX, from Nomad's Timecode generator (N.B. the ERX(s) are calibrated to Nomad's clock) into the TC port on my Stealth. This allows another level of backup, so to say, if by chance Tc fails, which hasn't happened yet OR the files are delivered to someone, who either would rather use Plural or doesn't want/understand what to do with Tc-the latter has happened more often than one might think, BTW and is probably why we see this topic recu, in different forms,r with a fair amount of frequency

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Elsie N]

I wish the DSMC2 would record on-camera tracks + mic in tracks separately but simultaneously.

 

[Joel Voelker]

DSMC2 will give you 4 tracks of audio; scratch mics as stereo and the rear input as stereo. This works very well. At least it will once they release the firmware that fixes the prores crashing issue...

 

[Brian Merlen]

A box is so cheap, why not use it like we did on DSMC1? i got one running on my alexa mini too?

 

[Elsie N]

DSMC2 will give you 4 tracks of audio; scratch mics as stereo and the rear input as stereo. This works very well. At least it will once they release the firmware that fixes the prores crashing issue...

Didn't know that. Thanks.

 

[Doug Beatty]

FYI - Per the Weapon Operation Guide (p. 20)

The DSMC² REDVOLT Expander offers a modular audio system that you can remove and replace with the upcoming audio modules. The default audio module offers two (2) female XLR audio connections. Each XLR input features a 3-position selector switch to designate the incoming audio signal type: Balanced Line Level, Balanced Mic Level, and Balanced Mic with +48V phantom power. Additionally, a 3.5mm line-level headphone jack lets you sample audio during takes and in playback mode.

No mention of line level input anywhere else in the guide, so it appears the only way to input line level is via the REDVOLT Expander. Otherwise, you will need to send mic level or pad a line level signal down.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Works but be sure to rely on it only when the scratch track & sync track sound very similar. I had an acquaintance of mine shoot a day's worth of footage at 100-300mm outside with only a button mic on the Scarlet. PluralEyes couldn't put them together.

That's correct. There are waveform-syncing applications for quite a few editing programs out there.

Note that if the camera mic sync is wrong, then the newly-added multitrack audio's sync will also be wrong. Don't assume it's going to be right. The stick clap is the real evidence of sound sync, because it shows the relationship between picture and sound.

DSMC2 will give you 4 tracks of audio; scratch mics as stereo and the rear input as stereo. This works very well. At least it will once they release the firmware that fixes the prores crashing issue...

It works well unless you have to adjust the levels manually. And every multitrack job I've ever done, I've wound up having to adjust levels constantly. What if one track goes dead? What if on one the meter is bouncing up and down, but the audio is badly distorted? You'll never know unless a human is actually monitoring the source.