Press Release...

[Craig Parkes]

Now that Leia is confirmed the modularity of the system makes a bunch more sense to me, as well as how it potentially connects with the professional user base of Red cameras.

In this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I9namlza4U

The Leia guys talk about the future vision they have including sense motion and ultrasonic haptic feedback. i.e purely digital components with real world haptic feedback and depth sensing so you get to 'touch' and physically interact with holograms - no need for physical components.

This is the thing that makes me understand why Jim is so excited about this. Think about it, instead of having sliders in fool control - what if you had virtual dials that provided haptic response, so you could switch between buttons and switches and knobs that you view in 4 view holograms that had a haptic component all on one device, your phone. Rather than 5 - 10 accessories that you have to use and carry around, this opens up the possibility that your Helium acts as ALL those accessories by simply loading up the sort of interactive interface for your RED camera that you want. It's a dial that allows you to pull focus where you can set digital focus marks. Or it's haptic joystick for controlling your remote head and that you can walk around with you. Or it's a series of custom switches on your phone where you custom set your 5 most commonly used settings and you can visually see what you have them set to from any angle you can see your phone because of the four view hologram and with the right accessory you can also haptically feel and 'move' those switches without even touching the screen - so you can use it to pull focus, or be your camera controller, or whatever you need. Need a different custom setup - don't engineer a solution - simply program one.

These features aren't announced or likely to be included in the base model obviously - haptic feedback and motion touch sense though could simply be incorporated into a Helium Accessory at a later date.

The possibilities for this side of things (when you think about an app like Fool Control) I think is the real promise of the DSMC 2.0 and the Red System. We all know this is something RED and Jim are passionate about - just think back to the Redmote - a potentially brilliant production tool that they never really got fully working and whose functional issues this combo of technology (combined with the built in features of DSMC 2.0 wifi control) would not only solve - but also really stick to the mantra - obsolescence obsolete.

Now obviously there are a huge amount of other directions this product and technology could go - but as product line and offering in the RED ecosystem - doesn't this concept - a modular cellphone that can not only control your camera, but also display 3D holographic control buttons and dials that you can interact with via hover 'touch' over the screen and receive haptic feedback the sort of giant leap forward that would get a guy like Jim excited? Isn't it also a perfect offering to satisfy the massively varied needs of Redusers, and the sort of product that when Jim asks you to 'trust' him that you'll want, no matter what, that you know he's keeping his word?

Because let's be honest - we don't all want an expensive gimicky phone that can display four view holographs - and I have been scratching my head about why Jim would go this direction (or launch this as a RED product) if that was all he imagined Helium being. But if he's on board with what the Leia guys are imagining - this becomes a MUCH bigger deal than that.

 

[PatrickFaith]

...

This is the thing that makes me understand why Jim is so excited about this. Think about it, instead of having sliders in fool control - what if you had virtual dials that provided haptic response, so you could switch between buttons and switches and knobs that you view in 4 view holograms that had a haptic component all on one device, your phone. Rather than 5 - 10 accessories that you have to use and carry around, this opens up the possibility that your Helium acts as ALL those accessories by simply loading up the sort of interactive interface for your RED camera that you want. It's a dial that allows you to pull focus where you can set digital focus marks. Or it's haptic joystick for controlling your remote head and that you can walk around with you. Or it's a series of custom switches on your phone where you custom set your 5 most commonly used settings and you can visually see what you have them set to from any angle you can see your phone because of the four view hologram and with the right accessory you can also haptically feel and 'move' those switches without even touching the screen - so you can use it to pull focus, or be your camera controller, or whatever you need. Need a different custom setup - don't engineer a solution - simply program one.
...

What would be amazingly useful to me for hydrogen view of dsmc2 is a display of the camera view, but a gio-scope depth map for the pixels. That way I could see the picture in the x-y plane, and the gio scope zones would be the "z" depth coming out of the hydrogen screen. ... also something like that for what is in and out of focus would be nice.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

As I suspected.

 

[Eric Lange]

HYDROGEN sub forum ?

HYDROGEN sub forum ?

Now that Leia is confirmed the modularity of the system makes a bunch more sense to me, as well as how it potentially connects with the professional user base of Red cameras.

In this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I9namlza4U

The Leia guys talk about the future vision they have including sense motion and ultrasonic haptic feedback. i.e purely digital components with real world haptic feedback and depth sensing so you get to 'touch' and physically interact with holograms - no need for physical components.

This is the thing that makes me understand why Jim is so excited about this. Think about it, instead of having sliders in fool control - what if you had virtual dials that provided haptic response, so you could switch between buttons and switches and knobs that you view in 4 view holograms that had a haptic component all on one device, your phone. Rather than 5 - 10 accessories that you have to use and carry around, this opens up the possibility that your Helium acts as ALL those accessories by simply loading up the sort of interactive interface for your RED camera that you want. It's a dial that allows you to pull focus where you can set digital focus marks. Or it's haptic joystick for controlling your remote head and that you can walk around with you. Or it's a series of custom switches on your phone where you custom set your 5 most commonly used settings and you can visually see what you have them set to from any angle you can see your phone because of the four view hologram and with the right accessory you can also haptically feel and 'move' those switches without even touching the screen - so you can use it to pull focus, or be your camera controller, or whatever you need. Need a different custom setup - don't engineer a solution - simply program one.

These features aren't announced or likely to be included in the base model obviously - haptic feedback and motion touch sense though could simply be incorporated into a Helium Accessory at a later date.

The possibilities for this side of things (when you think about an app like Fool Control) I think is the real promise of the DSMC 2.0 and the Red System. We all know this is something RED and Jim are passionate about - just think back to the Redmote - a potentially brilliant production tool that they never really got fully working and whose functional issues this combo of technology (combined with the built in features of DSMC 2.0 wifi control) would not only solve - but also really stick to the mantra - obsolescence obsolete.

Now obviously there are a huge amount of other directions this product and technology could go - but as product line and offering in the RED ecosystem - doesn't this concept - a modular cellphone that can not only control your camera, but also display 3D holographic control buttons and dials that you can interact with via hover 'touch' over the screen and receive haptic feedback the sort of giant leap forward that would get a guy like Jim excited? Isn't it also a perfect offering to satisfy the massively varied needs of Redusers, and the sort of product that when Jim asks you to 'trust' him that you'll want, no matter what, that you know he's keeping his word?

Because let's be honest - we don't all want an expensive gimicky phone that can display four view holographs - and I have been scratching my head about why Jim would go this direction (or launch this as a RED product) if that was all he imagined Helium being. But if he's on board with what the Leia guys are imagining - this becomes a MUCH bigger deal than that.

^^^^^^ This kind of thing etc. etc. (all good).

@Moderators/Moderator ---> Oh super sexy and talented and VERY patient moderators and Gods of RED.... Can HYDROGEN have its own sub-forum (Pretty please)? :Angel_anim:

I think folks are bringing up some really excellent and deep discussion points that are worth thrashing out but to do so would totally "Jack up" any normal announcement type threads from Jim Jannard/RECON/RED.

It's pretty clear that HYDROGEN + LEIA +RED = A hell of a lot of stuff (that folks are just starting to think about and get with). And... there seems to be a "Need" to think out loud about a lot of this stuff. + Development on HYDROGEN/LEIA etc.


So things that other REDUSER folks are bringing up like haptics or OLED displays versus LCD, or basic vision of LEIA or deeper computer interaction/interface design or just mobile device / phone issues/ arguments etc. etc. etc. Ad infinitum probably deserve their own threads... Not to mention the camera thingy/bit of the whole thing... I think you guys get what I mean? It's BIG.

So I think it would be super useful and terrific to have HYDROGEN related ecosystem/LEIA sub forum.

Thanks!

Eric

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

I wonder if these guys have something to do with it:


https://www.leia3d.com

Just a "lucky guess" back on July 7th.

 

[Eric Lange]

HYDROGENUSER?

HYDROGENUSER?

Maybe there will be a separate user forum entirely for HYDROGEN and LEIA products and or HYDROGEN + LEIA products and systems?

It's one thing to sell thousands of digital cinematic products, but another entirely if you sell hundreds of thousands or eventually millions of HYDROGEN and LEIA based products that need support and on-line community support.

 

[Elsie N]

Maybe there will be a separate user forum entirely for HYDROGEN and LEIA products and or HYDROGEN + LEIA products and systems?

It's one thing to sell thousands of digital cinematic products, but another entirely if you sell hundreds of thousands or eventually millions of HYDROGEN and LEIA based products that need support and on-line community support.

Better yet... spin-off to a completely new forum... REDHydrogen.net. Eventually this is going to be a tool that appeals to a whole new class of content providers. Totally different beast than your run-of-the-mill REDuser, IMO.

Jim is just the animal tamer to promote the Hydrogen beast.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I don't see it as a pro camera. People are excited over holograms as big leaps fowards, but I just see a normal cell phone camera wise so far, not as a pro camera. The fairyfloss is ruling the kids at the show, but what about the substance. Is the base phone going be a lot lot lot lot better than other camera phones, or is it going be a little better? Very strange everybody is so excited about 3D display on a pro camera forum rather than the camera functionality itself.

 

[Eric Lange]

Wayne I am going to shoot you (figuratively / not literally)...

Did it escape your grasp that the separate module is HELIUM based?

Honestly I don't understand why you feel the need to de-value EVERY product offering that RED has ever rolled out... Just about as far as I can tell (And I have probably read more of your posts than anyone else on RED forum or for that matter on planet Earth). As far as I know you have not purchase one single RED item either? Not even a hat...

If JIM himself made you a camera, personally for Wayne that you could shoot directly into the sun (from space) and simultaneously record starlight from the faintest and most distant galaxies and had a 500 million photosite sensor, and the whole device had the form factor of a credit card and it cost $20. You would still endeavor to find a way to de-value that as being too expensive, or too big or not enough of something else... Like its doesn't use functional quantum computing from another dimension or something?

AND to top it all off you basically claim to have invented everything in the known universe of photonics and digital systems whether you have ever heard of it before or not. (Which is frankly really insulting to people that really do bust their arses and risk everything and put their arses on the line to bring and invent stuff that is REAL).

If someone did that on YOUR forum, wouldn't you find it a bit annoying/quite narcissistic + annoying?

 

[Eric Lange]

I don't see it as a pro camera. People are excited over holograms as big leaps fowards, but I just see a normal cell phone camera wise so far, not as a pro camera. The fairyfloss is ruling the kids at the show, but what about the substance. Is the base phone going be a lot lot lot lot better than other camera phones, or is it going be a little better? Very strange everybody is so excited about 3D display on a pro camera forum rather than the camera functionality itself.

Wayne I am going to shoot you (figuratively / not literally)...

Did it escape your grasp that the separate module is HELIUM based?

Honestly I don't understand why you feel the need to de-value EVERY product offering that RED has ever rolled out... Just about as far as I can tell (And I have probably read more of your posts than anyone else on RED forum or for that matter on planet Earth). As far as I know you have not purchase one single RED item either? Not even a hat...

If JIM himself made you a camera, personally for Wayne that you could shoot directly into the sun (from space) and simultaneously record starlight from the faintest and most distant galaxies and had a 500 million photosite sensor, and the whole device had the form factor of a credit card and it cost $20. You would still endeavor to find a way to de-value that as being too expensive, or too big or not enough of something else... Like its doesn't use functional quantum computing from another dimension or something?

AND to top it all off you basically claim to have invented everything in the known universe of photonics and digital systems whether you have ever heard of it before or not. (Which is frankly really insulting to people that really do bust their arses and risk everything and put their arses on the line to bring and invent stuff that is REAL).

If someone did that on YOUR forum, wouldn't you find it a bit annoying/quite narcissistic + annoying?

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Eric, this does not warrant a response, but is more time wasting. But, I quantify things, it is as good as it is, none perfect. You have made some comments about every product, but where were you to see this for the last decade or more? How many times have I said, Jim and Red have done good, and that they're good products are good? You can't expect things to be 100% perfect, none of us are perfect, are we?

Now, didn't I talk about the phone, the base phone, not some module? And about what has been revealed so far, next too nothing directly?

Ohh I can buy a hat, can't I? Every time I plan to buy something, they cancel it (and believe me, after a lot of waiting too), don't they? Now, they are dangling a new product in front of me, but without details needed, aren't they? I wait patiently for it to come, hoping I'm not being wishful again.

Lol, is anything Red has $20, even the hat? You overplay. But yes, I would love that camera, but realistically I don't see it coming soon. You know the thing about most balls, they're not perfectly smoothly round, negative or factusl? So what, they aren't but they perform, and most can buy suitable at a suitable price, which is more important, isn't it?

Eric, I'm sorry, you have a level, like the rest of us.

No, it's the realism I'm interested, not personality. They'r perfectly welcome to be realistic if I had a forum (which I don't because I know the sheer butt busting level of commitment I give which means several hours a day time slow reading posts to even handedly moderate. Which is why I don't volunteer on forums) however is it your forum? Some people survive because of their honestly, even handness, uncompromising willingness to do right objectively despite negstuve dishonest underhanded opposition. It's about real trust worthiness.


Don't you think it is a bit of an overreaction to 'we are about cameras', 'where are the camera details?' after over a year of waiting? This is only in reference to people getting too distracted by the display rather than the phone and camera function itself. Few of our lives revolve around 3D do they?

And Eric, I analysis and construct every single thing I put my mind to, often before anybody else has released something. It's not insulting, but true and even handed rebalancing. This is a little of thousands of designs and probably tens of thousands of things in those designs. Just because one is not able to do that, don't dare assume it is not true. Busting one's butt is a distinct sign of lack of talent, not an abundance of it, isn't it (Tesla Edison). One busts their but implementing something. If they bust their butts in time or energy making design choices and direction, they lack talent. This has been what I found myself until I corrected my thinking in a design obstacle to get talent in that designs sub-area, and progressed. Every bleeding heart I hear in design is so blind to the obviouse and slow on the up take, even in confusion running around trying to figure something out. Real design is understand, orientate path step 1, step 2, step 3 through the design path until you get to the end. Good design, is to see all the paths and problems and down the decision trees, and pick the best ones. I'm tripping up daily on insulting people paid a lot to do the most simple things that they don't get right,which the user has to suffer for, that is insulting.

 

[Adrian I]

I don't see it as a pro camera. People are excited over holograms as big leaps fowards, but I just see a normal cell phone camera wise so far, not as a pro camera. The fairyfloss is ruling the kids at the show, but what about the substance. Is the base phone going be a lot lot lot lot better than other camera phones, or is it going be a little better? Very strange everybody is so excited about 3D display on a pro camera forum rather than the camera functionality itself.

I'm excited over the holo stuff as that is what the recent announcement has touted, but that doesn't detract from the fact that I'm buying one primarily as I want a proper camera in something I carry around with me every day and everywhere I go.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but my rough expectation is that:

1. The Hydrogen built in camera will top DXO mobile by a significant margin.
2. The bolt on options will best high end DSLR's (at a commensurate cost).

I'm sure further announcements will fan the flames of excitement for the camera capabilities (both built in and modular).

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I think the bolt on module is going be the best DXO mobile, but the canera in the phone I'm interested in. The module is after, in the meantime the phone is what we use. Sure a tiny Sony sensor with hdr video might be alright, if you let it go. This means more than h264 100mb/s videos or something next to what the module will give. I wonder, even hope, that the sensor below the phone, is a helium that services the twin lens on the phone and the single lens module. The patent, or something, mentioned a 6k sensor, but wouldn't it be great if that went up to 8k by the time of release. Each of the two cameras in the phone could be almost 4k square, or 4 cameras wide. But we'll see. If the phone/lens module, is like this, it would put to rest the BM Pocket. It is a shame that was never upgraded.

 

[Adrian I]

I don't think that's likely. They said in previous posts that it'll be modular to make it the best camera you can get aside from their pro cams. That to me means that the bolt on stuff should be at the top end of dxo, not dxo mobile. Given the size of the Hydrogen (ie large for a phone), i'd be surprised if they couldn't get a larger sensor than is available in normal phones in there, and therefore if they couldn't top dxo mobile with just the built in cam.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

When I said top mobile DXO but that doesnt mean it it wouldn't far far ahead. If they made a smaller sensors though, it is likely to be closer to what Sony could do if they wished (and few phones even get the top near mobile sensor, let alone what they could do). However, they design sensors to use two lens on a single stretched sensor instead of two sensors. So, it is possible to put a 6k sensor in it.snd folded optic it to the present position, but reuse all of it as a wide sensor with the triplet camera module. It is possible to fold it out to a wide multipoint module, but that might be a bit ahead of what's planned.

 

[Adrian I]

But why would you say it'll only top DXO mobile when they've said it'll be better than anything except their pro cams?

 

[Alberto Guglielmi]

Negativity is bad.
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't talk/write.

Negativity with ignorance is depressing.
If you don't have anything nice to say, and also have no real information about what you are talking about, you sound like our current president.

 

[Les Hillis]

How do they get even illumination of the holographic image across the entire screen when/if it's getting beamed in from just one side of the screen?

 

[Wayne Morellini]

But why would you say it'll only top DXO mobile when they've said it'll be better than anything except their pro cams?

Where do they say that? Anyway, top mobile does not mean it won't be high pro level does it? We have to just wait for the figures to see how high, which hopefully will be close to weapon.

Alberto, you're being negative. Be realistic. And everybody Can be happier, rather than hyping. It's going be a fantastic product for years and years, if they design everything that way.

 

[Eric Lange]

Negativity is bad.
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't talk/write.

Negativity with ignorance is depressing.
If you don't have anything nice to say, and also have no real information about what you are talking about, you sound like our current president.

+1

First rules of film making pummeled into me by my father at a very early age...

1. Don't piss off the director.

2. ALWAYS be positive about a studio or production and don't even (in an interview) say things like the "studio coffee is bad and so on".

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


As to the second " Negativity with ignorance is depressing." ... +1000

It's also VERY destructive.


Many folks I know and work with on a daily basis were hit super hard by the 2008 crash. That has left a lot of scars on folks and frankly put a lot folks out of business too. In many industries it has taken a lot of time to gain confidence back as to what can and should be done.

I'm not sure where exactly I stand on "Globalism" and Free trade etc. but in the age of the Internet forums and the like considerable deleterious manipulation is possible from individuals and agents that are essentially foreign nationals to a core business.

The way I look at it if there are constant negative elements that are consistently negative over a long period of time (that do not contribute anything positive) that has a corrosive effect.


So when there is a new product launch and considerable investment and risks involved and FAITH and GOOD FAITH involved then having a foreign national constantly manipulating and negatively re-framing stuff against things that don't actually exist (as RED in a lot of cases IS the best at what it does so REAL examples are not possible), is pointlessly destructive, or is DELIBERATELY destructive; either way it is still destructive behavior.


The bottom line... This kind of negative and corrosive BS costs US jobs and also has an effect on orders and also has a negative psychological effect on those that place their trust in JIM and pre-ordered as they did and no doubt will continue to do so.

This is Jim's house, and collectively we should respect that. It is a privilege to be here, and as such, such a privilege can also be revoked.

RED and LEIA have key territories both in the USA and elsewhere.

But at some point someone has to define or draw a clear boundary here, as to what is appropriate and what is not.


I feel OK about drawing a boundary between foreign agents that aim to undermine US businesses and the folks that depends on those US businesses* (either in the USA or abroad in partnership/trading with).

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


*I am NOT into Trump policies but I don't endorse corrosive acts that damage the livelihood of my fellow countryman and our brothers and sisters at our northern and southern borders too. (Canada and Mexico).

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


[I hang out and contribute to other technically and industrially oriented forums. With for example machining forums 5-axis machining capability is closely linked to nuclear capability (esp. miniaturization of nuclear war heads) ISIS also build various munitions through knowledge and practice of machining CNC practice. Typically foreign nationals on such forums are scrutinized quite closely and the export of 5 axis machines is typically banned. But I have to say on other industrially oriented and deeply technical forums "Such negative" and unprofessional and destructive behaviors would last about 6 months before the individual is found out , or flamed, and or banned (for good).].