Portable HD available for RED SSDs?

[Omar N]

Hello everybody,

Does anyone know if there is something like this for RED SSD cards available?:

http://www.amazon.com/HyperDrive-Co...59CE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1321272949&sr=8-2

Rather than bringing a laptop everywhere, something like that could save space and money when offloading RED media. I have searched for a few hours and have not found anything, but I wonder if anyone else has any ideas.

Thank you in advance,
~Omar

 

[DJ Meyer]

Not sure but that would be handy.

 

[David Dwyer]

How quick would they be copying 64GB+ ? They don't support the 1.8" SDD?

Though I know what you are saying its cheaper to purchase one of these devices than have 4+ Red SSDs?

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

If the SSD's were "normal", this would do:

http://blackmagic-design.com/products/hyperdeckshuttle/

But because the RED SSD's have a different pin out, I doubt they would work. Only if anyone would invent an adapter to plug non-RED SSD's into RED equipment and vice-versa.

Marcos

 

[DJ Meyer]

How quick would they be copying 64GB+ ? They don't support the 1.8" SDD?

Though I know what you are saying its cheaper to purchase one of these devices than have 4+ Red SSDs?

I think it would be handy rather than having to hook up a laptop if you need to dump footage on the go.

 

[Matt Johnston]

If the SSD's were "normal", this would do:

http://blackmagic-design.com/products/hyperdeckshuttle/

But because the RED SSD's have a different pin out, I doubt they would work. Only if anyone would invent an adapter to plug non-RED SSD's into RED equipment and vice-versa.

Marcos

That's a recorder. Not a portable drive.

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

Ahh, thanks for the correction Matt.

That's a recorder. Not a portable drive.

 

[Michel Rabe]

The .pdf says that this cloning station accepts 1.8/2.5/3.5" HDD and SSD with 22 pin SATA combo interface, there are also adapters available for micro and slim drives.
It has a cloning function that works without need of Computer, it's just a button.

http://www.lindy.de/lindyshop/manuals/42797v6.pdf

Are RED SSD's 22 pin SATA? Anyone has used these and know if one can clone from SSD to HDD?

 

[Scott C]

The .pdf says that this cloning station accepts 1.8/2.5/3.5" HDD and SSD with 22 pin SATA combo interface, there are also adapters available for micro and slim drives.
It has a cloning function that works without need of Computer, it's just a button.

http://www.lindy.de/lindyshop/manuals/42797v6.pdf

Are RED SSD's 22 pin SATA? Anyone has used these and know if one can clone from SSD to HDD?

This thread is very relevant to my interests! I wonder if you can use the "Clone" function multiple times from smaller disks onto one large disk (I would assume you could...) though I could see it just writing over the first cloning if it's not designed for that.

It would really be fantastic to have a device like this if it works, to where you could just have a 1TB target storage drive, and just pack 2 64GB SSDs and swap back and forth all day just by pressing a button, no laptop involved. Would possibly save the trouble of needing an assistant on-site

 

[Dan Kanes]

I'm someone who loves hacking new things and trying out experiments, but I think your best bet for "cheap" media management in the field is to get a PC like this one:

Refurbished Dell Latitude E6400 or E6410
Ranges from 349.99 to 549.99 depending on what CPU you want. If you are just transferring data, get the cheaper one.
You need the Red SSD Reader. This is not an optional component. Just think of it this way. You may use it 250 days in your lifetime, that's only a dollar a day. The assurance you gain from using the correct media reader is worth the cost.

In your e6400/e6410 you can install two hard drives. One system drive, and one additional drive. here is a drive caddy.

http://www.newmodeus.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_3&products_id=224

This theory could apply to other PC laptops, but I chose these dells because they have ESATA for interfacing to your card reader.

You could go dual Spinning drives, Dual SSDs, or one spinner and one SSD.

Here is a cost differential:
Spinning Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148446
SSD:
http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CT512M4SSD2

Sure - this is kinda costly, but it only hurts to spend this much once. The Dual redundant spinning drives is not "horrible" either - since that is what would typically be in a Nexto type box.

 

[Nick Gardner]

It's not about cheap, it's about being light on your feet. With a 3 person doc crew in some place like the middle of nowhere Mali, we had our sound guy with two hyperdrives on his belt. 16 gig card came out of the camera, and into the hyperdrive on one hip. When that one was done, it went into the other. Dual back up without as much as sitting down. That's one thing that the CF cards have over ssds.


Nick

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

It's not about cheap, it's about being light on your feet. With a 3 person doc crew in some place like the middle of nowhere Mali, we had our sound guy with two hyperdrives on his belt. 16 gig card came out of the camera, and into the hyperdrive on one hip. When that one was done, it went into the other. Dual back up without as much as sitting down. That's one thing that the CF cards have over ssds.


Nick

Sorry mate ... Red probably doesn't make a camera for you yet.

I think that eventually you may cobble together something like that ... but a 64GB SSD is just 19 minutes or so of recording on Scarlet, less on Epic.

If you are used to HVX200 or DSLR, its about what you get on a 8GB card. That means 8 times the storage: its a huge bandwidth problem too.

This is a cinema camera, not a rugged field doc camera. If that is your application I'd point you at cameras like the Sony EX350 coupled with an AJA Ki Pro Mini or Sound Devices PIX recorder on CF cards. Record ProRes (or ProRes LT if your device supports it)

You can set up Scarlet or Epic in very much this way ... just remember you are throwing away 90% of the camera's available data by recording off the SDI tap.

(You'd be recording a max of 10 bit 4:2:2 1080p. Instead of 16 bit 5K/4K RAW - which you can readily convert to 12 bit 444 1080p. So aside from resolution you are still trashing a lot of the camera's capability)

If you are going to do that anyway ... I'd ask why not use an ENG style camera in the first place? A Sony EX3 would be my first choice, which can be ready to run in this configuration for under the cost of a Scarlet brain only.

I'd like to see the kind of solution you are talking about as well ... but its a next generation technology. You need a computer to control data transfer, massive storage capacity and a Red 1.8" SSD reader in one device.

The technology is available now ... in a desktop. An internal RAID array and an eSATA connector for the Red 1.8" SSD reader ... you can cobble together something to hold the Red reader in a 5.25" slot. Run power internal, use a custom Linux distro with DD ... and get a pure copy station in one box.

You can use a MiniATX case and use 2.5" drives and get something much more field friendly. If you have the budget, you can jam it full of 512GB SSD.

Since all you need "on set" is the ability to monitor copy progress and integrity (via MD5 or similar) you can use a low power/low resolution LCD as the display.

Now that Nvidia has Tegra3/Kal-El out its getting feasible to run this on batteries.

Probably not on anyone's hip in the very near future. Look again in 2 years.

If you want to enable any type of confidence playback ... we are back to looking at something that can run complex software like Resolve or RedCineX ... and has the processor muscle to back it up which requires a Core i7 or better. You could probably build a custom "briefcase" computer to do this based on laptop components and using large battery blocks today ... but on the hip? Maybe 4 years?

 

[Nick Gardner]

Thanks for setting me straight "Mate". I had no idea how stupid I was shooting documentaries on Red. I'll stop right away.

Nick

 

[DJ Meyer]

Sorry mate ... Red probably doesn't make a camera for you yet.

I think that eventually you may cobble together something like that ... but a 64GB SSD is just 19 minutes or so of recording on Scarlet, less on Epic.

If you are used to HVX200 or DSLR, its about what you get on a 8GB card. That means 8 times the storage: its a huge bandwidth problem too.

This is a cinema camera, not a rugged field doc camera. If that is your application I'd point you at cameras like the Sony EX350 coupled with an AJA Ki Pro Mini or Sound Devices PIX recorder on CF cards. Record ProRes (or ProRes LT if your device supports it)

You can set up Scarlet or Epic in very much this way ... just remember you are throwing away 90% of the camera's available data by recording off the SDI tap.

(You'd be recording a max of 10 bit 4:2:2 1080p. Instead of 16 bit 5K/4K RAW - which you can readily convert to 12 bit 444 1080p. So aside from resolution you are still trashing a lot of the camera's capability)

If you are going to do that anyway ... I'd ask why not use an ENG style camera in the first place? A Sony EX3 would be my first choice, which can be ready to run in this configuration for under the cost of a Scarlet brain only.

I'd like to see the kind of solution you are talking about as well ... but its a next generation technology. You need a computer to control data transfer, massive storage capacity and a Red 1.8" SSD reader in one device.

The technology is available now ... in a desktop. An internal RAID array and an eSATA connector for the Red 1.8" SSD reader ... you can cobble together something to hold the Red reader in a 5.25" slot. Run power internal, use a custom Linux distro with DD ... and get a pure copy station in one box.

You can use a MiniATX case and use 2.5" drives and get something much more field friendly. If you have the budget, you can jam it full of 512GB SSD.

Since all you need "on set" is the ability to monitor copy progress and integrity (via MD5 or similar) you can use a low power/low resolution LCD as the display.

Now that Nvidia has Tegra3/Kal-El out its getting feasible to run this on batteries.

Probably not on anyone's hip in the very near future. Look again in 2 years.

If you want to enable any type of confidence playback ... we are back to looking at something that can run complex software like Resolve or RedCineX ... and has the processor muscle to back it up which requires a Core i7 or better. You could probably build a custom "briefcase" computer to do this based on laptop components and using large battery blocks today ... but on the hip? Maybe 4 years?

I think you may have misunderstood the intent. He (and we) are not looking to record via the SDI out to ProRes as primary capture means.

We're simply looking for a unit that will dump and/or backup the SSD module contents to a big hard drive or SSD without having to lug around a laptop and Red SSD reader, and find an AC outlet.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

... but a 64GB SSD is just 19 minutes or so of recording on Scarlet, less on Epic.

At the absolute maximum frame rate and bitrate yes, but thats why there are compression and resolution options etc.

If you threw on a 2/3" or 16mm zoom and shot run and gun in 2k mode and went up to maximum 18:1 compression, you'd be getting about 3.5hrs per 64gb card at 24fps, not a bad way to go for run and gun... Similar storage requirements to XDCAM EX at <40Mbps and even similar cost to SxS. If you were worried about noise and sharpness at 2k you could go to 3k and still get almost 2hrs per 64gb card but your lens options would be somewhat different.

 

[Dan Kanes]

Sorry mate ... Red probably doesn't make a camera for you yet.

Wow - Obviously you know nothing about Nick Gardner.

 

[Dan Kanes]

I think you may have misunderstood the intent. He (and we) are not looking to record via the SDI out to ProRes as primary capture means.

We're simply looking for a unit that will dump and/or backup the SSD module contents to a big hard drive or SSD without having to lug around a laptop and Red SSD reader, and find an AC outlet.

I'm not one who would even prescribe doing this at, since the whole point of scarlet (in my eyes) is to really shoot raw, and by the time you add an external recorder of any sort, you might as well carry around a "Heavy Laptop" but if you are all about the Prores - I would recommend getting a Ki-Pro Mini since it works with CF cards, and then either get an S-Load of CF cards to take with you, or bring a Nexto, which is the tried and true "not as heavy as a laptop" backup solution.

 

[Dan Kanes]

I'd like to see the kind of solution you are talking about as well ... but its a next generation technology. You need a computer to control data transfer, massive storage capacity and a Red 1.8" SSD reader in one device.

Actually its the integration of today's technologies in a convenient form-factor. There is nothing next-gen about this at all. In fact - My two generation ago dell laptop idea would get the job done - in fact you can power the Red SSD Reader from a USB port with the included USB-5V power connector, data bus would be via Esata.

 

[DJ Meyer]

I'm not one who would even prescribe doing this at, since the whole point of scarlet (in my eyes) is to really shoot raw, and by the time you add an external recorder of any sort, you might as well carry around a "Heavy Laptop" but if you are all about the Prores - I would recommend getting a Ki-Pro Mini since it works with CF cards, and then either get an S-Load of CF cards to take with you, or bring a Nexto, which is the tried and true "not as heavy as a laptop" backup solution.

No one ever mentioned anything about shooting ProRes.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

It may be possible to put together a relatively portable, somewhat limited rig using an off the shelf sata duplicator like this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817998166

along with a male sata to esata cable to attach a red station 1.8" reader, a hard drive to duplicate with, and a battery to power the red station and duplicator device. Throw it all in some kind of enclosure and you could backup your SSD with the touch of a button. There may even be similar devices that would allow you to do more than just 1:1 copies so you could copy several SSDs onto one backup drive, but the one I linked probably wouldn't do that.