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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Please release upgrade list for Dragon

David Battistella said:
When the call comes, it comes.

battistella
Click to expand...
sorry, but that is not the way to run a business...at all...maybe if you are selling drugs but not cameras....
i understand that it is very hard to give a timeframe but i think at this point giving out dates within 3-4 week timeframes should be possible....at that point it is also easier to plan as a customer and have the camera ready to ship...
but then again i have been waiting for my XL module for a month....
red builds great cameras and i think they are working hard to be a little more like a consumer oriented company but there is still room for improvement....
 
Bob Gundu said:
I believe its always a moving target. So many variables like:

1. Not all customers can send the camera right away when they're number comes up.
2. During inspection, issues with your camera are discovered.
3. perhaps slow yields of the sensor.
4. Too many camera arriving at once.
5. I'm sure there can be many more...

So they may have a list of when they contact you, but it really doesn't mean they know when it's on the line.
Click to expand...

First, what Bob said : )

Second, there is a reason that 99.9% of companies in the world don't do upgrades, and make you just buy a whole new product with each new advancement - because it is a logistical b*tch. And Bob touched on a lot of the reasons. And like the situation where we got feedback on the OLPF, and we are turning around a new OLPF based on that feedback. That running change takes time and resources.

But no matter how hard it is on RED (and wears on the patience of our customers at times), RED feels the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

So why don't we publish a lot of timelines on REDuser? We learned our lesson : ) When we used to give regular updates on timing, when we missed them (for whatever reason), we got blasted. With cutting edge technology, you are going to get shifts and delays.

Lastly, if we said you were person number 200 in queue and the next poster is 400, does that give you any better indication of when you will get your notice? No, it is all relative.

End of the day, we are going as quickly as we can. It is in RED's best interests to get it done as quickly as we can. When you are frustrated, we are frustrated, maybe even more.
 
despite the delays I am still quite pleased. you and the rest of red team ALWAYS has my back, and i appreciate it! you've gone far above and beyond the call of duty every time I needed ya
 
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Does anyone have a good guess as to how many dragons are making it out of their cages per month? Is it in the dozens or hundreds? I just assume I will be the last one, since we got our Epic just last summer. I am more than happy to keep waiting, but it would still be fun to try to guess a general timeframe.
 
paul schefz said:
sorry, but that is not the way to run a business...at all...maybe if you are selling drugs but not cameras....
i understand that it is very hard to give a timeframe but i think at this point giving out dates within 3-4 week timeframes should be possible....at that point it is also easier to plan as a customer and have the camera ready to ship...
but then again i have been waiting for my XL module for a month....
red builds great cameras and i think they are working hard to be a little more like a consumer oriented company but there is still room for improvement....
Click to expand...


Paul,

i appreciate what you are saying but by now we are all pretty used to this. The same arguments came up with R1M to MX, then from R1 MX to EPIC and now from EPIC to dragon. It's a catch 22, everyone wants to see some shots, then some r3d, then they see others with it, etc and so on and then they want theirs. When they can't get it they want to know exactly when they can get it. When that doesn't happen, they bitch.

what is happening now is nothing new. It's the way it is and has been. Brent explained it about as best as he could by quoting bob and explaining at bit, but I don't think it's gonna change or shift much.

Just have to wait it out, make your business plans with a product that is in your hands and tested, giving anyone a date gets RED in trouble because it opens up all kinds of room for abuse.

In recent memory I think only the nMP gave a month that the product would be available and that is uber rare for apple.

Battistella
 
Cheers Brent,

We always like to see red team posts on reduser. :) We know dragon will be worth the wait.

Battistella
 
Thanks Brent and everyone for chiming in. I know there are a thousand factors that get in the way and that you guys are just as frustrated as me. I know my bomb rep is every time he can't give me a straight answer.

I'll keep waiting and hoping it sooner then later.
 
All of this only really happens because RED started out as a completely OPEN BOOK type of operating company, letting every one here, and the entire WORLD in turn, know their business and what was to come, and when it was to come, or so they thought...

Pre-Production is a very hard thing to define time wise, even on something of which you already have all the basins done, never mind when development is still actually going on...

As much as I absolutely have and continue to LOVE RED's openness about what they are doing, even so scaled down a LOT compared to when we first joined this forum back when...

I most vividly think that exactly that was the ONLY BIG MISTAKE that RED ever made, letting every one know their business and plans of release of new gear...

If they were to do as others have done and continue to do, were nothing is announced till is actually finished and in production, and only few months away form having the full production done for first planned sets of shipping, then and only then we would not have any such discussions.

RED had to learn their lesson the very hard way, and on top while they were simply using a strategy or were they? They were keeping us in the sloop step by step under the direct hand of Jim himself, an excited Visionary that could not wait to share what RED was up to, and about to bring us...

In a way, I actually now truly hope that DRAGON was the absolutely LAST time that RED let any one know what is up, and that we all discover what is new or coming... WHEN IS ACTUALLY IN STOCK!!


Sorry, but while I completely understand how many here fill about it, at times, my self included, this is the way I fill all the nonsense will stop...
 
Well said Bob.
Bob Gundu said:
I believe its always a moving target. So many variables like:

1. Not all customers can send the camera right away when they're number comes up.
2. During inspection, issues with your camera are discovered.
3. perhaps slow yields of the sensor.
4. Too many camera arriving at once.
5. I'm sure there can be many more...

So they may have a list of when they contact you, but it really doesn't mean they know when it's on the line.
Click to expand...

Right with you there Brent. The turn around on creating a new OLPF on user feedback is great news. Keep up the good work team!

Brent@RED said:
But no matter how hard it is on RED (and wears on the patience of our customers at times), RED feels the benefits far outweigh the negatives.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Harcharan,

i appreciate ate the watch list but, seven? Seven people since you started that list got a camera and sixteen got an email? Since April 2013? That list was kinda fun the last time you did it. This time I didn't join.

but it is pretty amazing when you look at the numbers.

Battistella
 
I can safely, no.... SAFELY say those two numbers are only a very small fraction : )
 
I've been frustrated with the wait, because I had the money saved up hoping to see the upgrade at the end of 2013. I had to spend it on something else to avoid the end of year tax bite. Now I have an April job which would pay for the whole thing, sensor, Rocket-X, etc., but no idea whether it would be worth even trying to sell the line producer and DP on Dragon (and look stupid, if I can't deliver it) or just step aside and not engage the discussion.

If I can't count on that job to pay for the upgrade, then I will have to postpone it until the next job comes up which can pay for it. Possibly not until the fall.

When the jobs come in waves, the timing of big expenditures like this one is important.

But I do very much appreciate when Brent chimes in on these matters because it's very helpful to be reminded that RED is engaged in a similar struggle on their end. It makes it feel like we are in this together - I miss Jim's voice in that regard. He always made it feel like we were on the same team, and that made the wait a lot easier. I feel like the degree of loyalty that Jim felt towards their customers was unparalleled - and that mattered, through all the growing pains and waiting.

Sitting through growing pains without that reassuring voice is quite a bit more difficult.
 
I hear you, Meryem. Trust me, although his voice is not on the boards, it is loud and clear within RED's walls so that loyalty is still there, and always going to be there. I know I, personally, would not be at RED without it.
 
Brent

It would be great if we had a very general ballpark guestimate.

Something within a 3 month window even?

For example, when approximately can we expect new Dragon X brains to be available in the store?

A 3-6 months.

B 6-9 months.

C Approximately a year.

D Approximately two years.


Throw us a tiny bone. What are we looking at here, ballpark guestimate only?
 
Just from the little I know, Harrachans list is not really a pointer...

It is a fun watchlist, but does not reflect much of the reality of Dragons in the wild.

My guess is that RED has answered this as much as they possibly can. And that a more precise answer only would lead to confuse matters more.
 
My big thing is that everyone has paid, I know everyone could use that money for something else if we don't know when we are getting our cameras in. I just hope by the end of winter we see things rolling very fast like when RED did the Scarlet to Epic Program. That was hella fast!!!!!
 
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