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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Please RED Implement this in the next firmware.

Hrvoje Simic said:
Sad to hear about the mess and hoping all works out well.
Positive vibes headed to Stockholm.

I recall proposing this in similar form a bunch of years back, not sure but it might have even been before REDuser on DVXuser and one of the ThinkTanks. The discussion brought up the issues with logistics and accidental lock outs and bunch of potential issues for Red.

One option could be an external dongle sitting in the office, used for camera unlocking.
So no pass codes are forgotten. Just setting the time frame for security check and dongle does the rest and camera is unusable without it past the pre-set date. Or weekly/monthly auto security check features.
Click to expand...

But would it be much more of an issue then what apple have with the codes for iphones? If the superuser code is forgotten then red can email it to the owners email. Same as the firmware download login password, no?
 
Apple likely has a huge customer service and could deliver master pass code directly to one's door via world airmail on diamond plated SR71.

We can only guess what is easier to Red, just saying that we discussed this a couple of years ago and it has not been implemented, and after Mark's cams were snatched we went through the similar talks again and again nothing, so there is probably a reason for that. Years back, my colleagues had their two R1s stolen along with a full set of Ultraprimes, by some international husslers who rented a large gear package and just fled abroad.

Which is why the proposal for consideration of the security feature which might be less of an issue for Red's customer service, being financed by each user who needs it, and it can avoid tons of panic calls, mails and drama. You get 2 dongles and need to contact Red only if you lost both, which should not be a frequent thing. Just tossing ideas around.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
Apple likely has a huge customer service and could deliver master pass code directly to one's door via world airmail on diamond plated SR71.

We can only guess what is easier to Red, just saying that we discussed this a bunch of years back and it has not been implemented, so there is probably a reason. Hence the proposal of the security feature which might be less of an issue for the customer service, financed by each user who needs it without large expenditures for new staff, and it can avoid tons of panic calls, mails and drama. You get 2 dongles and need to contact Red only if you lost both, which should not be a frequent thing. Just tossing ideas around.
Click to expand...

Im even happy if the superuser password would be the same as my redlogin and sent automatically to my email adress if I forgot it. So when the camera bricks a text comes up... "call owner for suport (here I insert my phone number)"

Red would not really need anything to do with it except for implementing the feature :)

And far less cameras would get stolen. As it is now red need to keep all the stolen red cameras on list which I think is quite a hassle aswell.

Edit: and not only for stolen cameras I really would want it for these client that "only book the camera for one shooting day and some traveling days" and then somehow manage to shoot 50 something hours during that one day :)
 
+1


Aside from the targerted thefts, I very much doubt most of them thieves even know what a Red camera is.... all they see is an expensive looking camera.
 
Dunkan Wolf said:
Aside from the targerted thefts, I very much doubt most of them thieves even know what a Red camera is.... all they see is an expensive looking camera.
Click to expand...

Yep. Not sure if the code would actually deter any thieves. Most camera gear thefts are very much an act of grabbing anything that looks to have value. And in the case of the iPhone, while it has made a brief impact, theft is on the rise again now that the savvy thieves have realized the lock can be thwarted through various jailbreak techniques.

That said, I would love to have the lock-out feature on the camera. I can think of some uses for this in addition to controlling rental client use and abuse. I would love to assign user codes with different permissions -- so I could give a camera to a client along with their code and they would not have the ability to load new firmware to the camera.

Master code from the camera can be stored in your user account at RED.COM. So it's not like RED has to go and look up lost codes for their registered camera owners.
 
I absolutely agree. 100%. I had a similar idea about having this sort of feature on still cameras, and when I suggested it, all the feedback focused on the negatives. Someone said, "that's what insurance is for". I'm sorry, but if someone steals my camera, I don't want them to have the satisfaction of using it!

My idea was to encrypt the image files. Of course the photographer should have the option of turning it off. Either way, this sort of idea is way, way, way overdue. I'm very encouraged that everyone here is positive about the idea.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I think we could leave RED out of the unlocking procedures.

Would be enough with the following:
Time lock between dateX and date Y: code1 (for example here I can put the name for the given rental client as a code)
Then additional X days: code2 (here i can give X number of additional days with another code, and also tap in how many days.
Then super user, code3: owner can set his own code to unlock / change / remove / add time locks etc.


With the above I could for example, set a lock on the camera for a booking, then when the client call and ask for more days. I have an option to a: give hime the code2... And if the shit hits the fan and a client is standing on set not able to shoot and I forgot to set the time locks correctly or such and I deal with a client I can trust then I could just give him the super user cod... And he can then open the camera for all future use if wanted and when camera comes back home I can reset/change that code to something new and go on to the next client.

And off course this should be a click in option, for those who think it´s a bad idea to put any kind of locks on their camera they just tap in their superuser code and change or initiate none of the above.

Basically then we could all have our cameras on a time lock at all times and those F€%#€ing thieves would know that a stolen RED camera is only a couple of weeks of fun at best.

So with the above and having the change date feature underneath the superuser password. Thieves would at least need to hack the camera to use it for any extended time periods.

So it does not need to be much more advanced than the code lock on an Iphone for super user and then a few definable codes underneath. We already have our login codes for the firmware downloads... so possibly that could be our superuser codes to start with.
Click to expand...

These ideas are so sweet! I'm with you all the way to make this happen!
 
Just throwing it out there, but what about a security module?

You attach it, set it up, and if it's not attached next time you boot up, the boot up gets aborted.

And if it is attached, you have to key in codes etc to advance further.

Wouldn't have to be that obtrusive an attachment, could still be small and have GPS functionality inside, but could also be visible enough to let anyone see the camera has some kind of security feature installed/attached.

It would have to be supported in firmware by RED to some extent, but could be a third party thing for the most part.

Still wouldn't stop random opportunists who don't even know/care what they're grabbing, or those that might then develop hacks for it, but could prevent some thefts in-between those two extremes.

Edit - Of course, that's all what others have said already, so just giving the idea a +1 really.
 
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Björn Benckert said:
Im even happy if the superuser password would be the same as my redlogin and sent automatically to my email adress if I forgot it. So when the camera bricks a text comes up... "call owner for suport (here I insert my phone number)"

Red would not really need anything to do with it except for implementing the feature :)

And far less cameras would get stolen. As it is now red need to keep all the stolen red cameras on list which I think is quite a hassle aswell.

Edit: and not only for stolen cameras I really would want it for these client that "only book the camera for one shooting day and some traveling days" and then somehow manage to shoot 50 something hours during that one day :)
Click to expand...


I understand your point. But this feature would not be implemented just for you, but for many others as well. And while you are well experienced with gear, many are not.
Plus there is a typical accommodation period where many would mess up while getting used to it. Plus this is a domain with long working hours, which tend to bring mistakes. And issues tend to emerge in worst possible situations. And this issue locks up the central device on which a whole shoot depends.

Creating another serious liability for Red.
The main issue is related to the fact that in this route device might easily become unusable and depend on Red's intervention, manual or automated and in any form.

One would need:
a) third party,
b) web access,
c) reliable connection
d) device to access the web,
e) 24/7 service with instant response,
just so one could reactivate the main device on the shoot.

While everything on the set stops and waits. Which may not be an issue to some but for many it can be a pretty big issue. Which may be less of an issue in the studio but can be a pretty big issue on many places outside of it.
Not to mention nature shooting in remote places.

Picture a set where a camera becomes unusable and stress and panic with emails, calls and customer support. Any issue whatsoever, whether it's mail delay, login issues or anything else and drama increases exponentially. Director, producer, actors, clients, anyone. Then someone gets pissed and fed up and puts all the blame on the camera and the company which makes it. Plus one slip in customer support or Red's server and it would likely be treated much more critically than own mistake which bricked the camera and caused the drama in the first place. Then the new online drama series begins.

Red makes the camera, sells it and beyond the point of manufacturer's guarantee it is not their responsibility to worry about each camera's usability. I'd say programming the feature is much less of an issue then accepting that responsibility. Which would likely be relied upon by some to worry less by themselves. The user messes up, the camera becomes a brick and you know who typically gets called out and remembered when there is any issue with a device.

I'm not being dismissive towards your idea, especially since a bunch of us were proposing a couple of similar security features in the past. I'm just bringing up the issues this particular route (if unadapted) may cause, the issues which may have been the reason these routes were not implemented since previously discussed a while back. It is easy to see just the benefits of something one would want. Manufacturer has to anticipate all the potential issues as well.

Btw, if this feature gets implemented in some form, I wouldn't advise locking a camera during client's usage.
This is a creative domain and camera is not a screwdriver but a brush, and a lot of magic just happens, impulsively and without planning.
If I rented a creative tool, had a sudden creative idea and an opportunity (not to mention the unique shot) and a tool became unusable - on someone else's choice, I'd never choose that tool again.
 
I would like to see an internal GPS with it's own battery that gets charged whenever an external battery is attached, which can be disabled by the user only after a security code is entered.
 
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