Please help us all understand Alexa's high points.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

...And then there's QuickTime X. A bold new step in the wrong direction. Quicktime needs a .38 calibre round to the back of the head yesterday.

ProRes is a nice codec though, and it's great that Alexa records directly to it. However, I don't see what all the big scare is over RED post these days. Of course Arri marketing still makes RED post out to be hell on earth, and people listen to Arri, no matter what they're saying. Personally I'd much rather shoot RAW and have more flexibility down the line... So why not shoot RAW with Alexa? Oh, yeah... Giant, bulky, expensive external recorder... Oh, what's that? No one supports the new ARRIRAW format? Gee... Whodathunkit All too familiar to those of us who've been working with RED since the beginning. Although I wish Arri the best of luck getting more software developers to support ARRIRAW, now that they have given no real incentive to do so. Oh well...

 

[M Most]

So why not shoot RAW with Alexa? Oh, yeah... Giant, bulky, expensive external recorder... Oh, what's that? No one supports the new ARRIRAW format? Gee... Whodathunkit All too familiar to those of us who've been working with RED since the beginning. Although I wish Arri the best of luck getting more software developers to support ARRIRAW, now that they have given no real incentive to do so. Oh well...

ArriRAW has been supported by a number of manufacturers for a few years now (Iridas, Filmlight, and others) via the D21. It is true that the format for the Alexa is new and requires some updated software from Arri (does that sound familiar to Red users?), but Assimilate has already shown it being decoded in real time in Scratch with no additional hardware short of the usual required NVidia card. The recorders that are being proposed at the moment are from Codex and S.two, both of whom have been T-Link licensees for some time now on the D21, and neither of which are particularly giant or bulky. Expensive is a matter of opinion, but one probably wouldn't buy either one, they'd rent it on a job basis. As for getting software companies to support ArriRAW, Arri is making it rather easy to do this and implementing it completely on GPU's. How necessary it will be is still to be determined, because at this point it's unclear as to what markets the Alexa will be strongest in, although it appears that television work is the first target - thus making ArriRAW implementation less critical in the short term.

 

[scott william]

Why wouldn't you perfer to shoot raw if you could?

 

[Brian D. Goff]

Quoting Roger Deakins:

"The Arri specs on the Alexa seem totally honest and accurate. I was testing the camera yesterday and I found it the first (and right now the only) digital camera to produce an image with the resolution and range as one captured on film."

So I guess 2k resolution is all that film could do after all? Didn't people (I think even Arri) used to say RED is no good because it does not have the same resolution as Film? Boy, marketing is really everything....

 

[jake blackstone]

ArriRAW has been supported by a number of manufacturers for a few years now (Iridas, Filmlight, and others) via the D21. It is true that the format for the Alexa is new and requires some updated software from Arri (does that sound familiar to Red users?), but Assimilate has already shown it being decoded in real time in Scratch with no additional hardware short of the usual required NVidia card. The recorders that are being proposed at the moment are from Codex and S.two, both of whom have been T-Link licensees for some time now on the D21, and neither of which are particularly giant or bulky. Expensive is a matter of opinion, but one probably wouldn't buy either one, they'd rent it on a job basis. As for getting software companies to support ArriRAW, Arri is making it rather easy to do this and implementing it completely on GPU's. How necessary it will be is still to be determined, because at this point it's unclear as to what markets the Alexa will be strongest in, although it appears that television work is the first target - thus making ArriRAW implementation less critical in the short term.

FilmMaster and now Fuse also support Alexa RAW.

 

[jake blackstone]

complete inability to upgrade QuickTime for 64-bit.

That's why apps on Windows, even in 64 bit environment have to run in 32 bit mode, if they want to support QT.

 

[Michael Romano]

Such a refreshing conversation: RAW vs. 4:4:4! I've been working with a EX3, 5D and a GoPro the past week on 5-0 and I'm apparently the only one who sees something amiss! Love you guys!

 

[Thomas Wright]

After buying all the Element technica bracketry and all the accessories and cables to make a Red cinestyle you're looking at £35k, to have something that if the battery is bumped turns off. Spend another £13k and you have something that turns on quick, runs on 12V or 24V uses existing 3pin fischer cables with an acceptable current of 3A and large rosettes on the side that take, wait for it, industry standard pistol grips etc.

OK the prores SXS isn't running at the moment but they made no bones about it. I love the Red camera, it kicked these guys in the proverbial butt, this is what free market economy competition is about. We eagerly await Epic.

Oh and the picture is superb, but that goes without saying.

 

[Sebastian Gross]

"she" boots in under 25sec, does black shading before every single frame, the menu is the definition of simplified (see gary adcocks alexa menu introduction), it works with all the availabe gear, it is rock solid (the mount is attached to the body and to the sensor as well so you wont push it out of focus, once its measured AND it's not aluminium), the fan is amazingly quiet (next to a lawnmower red, no offense). we tested it between 12.9 and 14 T-stops, compared to a MX red with about 10.3 (and smearing in the highlights). for accurance i have to mention that RED puts more than twice as much photosites on a tiny bit smaller sensor..
it is simpy amazing what "she" sees in the dark. we watched an alexa shot (on a proper 2K beamer in a proper viewing environment) of a basment that was just lit by an open door and even this door was covered by a wall.
then they drenched a rubber ball in burning liquid and let it bounce down the basement stairs and it literally lit up the basement so you could see the structure on the walls of what seemed to be an unlit room.
then there was a closeUp-shot of roses with a nice purple-white gradient and all i can say is that its brilliance made our eyes water.

As far as i know ARRI's fiddling in the labs to press the ARRI RAW onto CF (when the time s right they'll just exchange the module) or SxS cards as well but the SSD's are simply not fast enough right now. by the time they will accomplish this there wont be any need for a t-link certified RAW recorder anymore.

since the NAB i was asking myself "what's the deal with 4444" if i have to rent a 40.000 bucks recorder to get me the RAW i am longing for..?" until i saw what the can pull out of 12bit-4444 with log-c and proper LUT's, especially when it comes to greenscreens and keying.

besides the marketing "shoot>edit>alexa" slogan it really is a simple and very steady workflow.

for as i totally like RED and it's products i can tell you that ARRI put a very solid camera together that can only be commented with:

"well done."

but i certainly think that reds modular design will be somewhat of a game changer, because when i need to move my camera quickly into narrow places than the alexa is simply not the weapon of choice..
proxy module, redmote and so on...
all pretty good stuff if it'll finally surface.. ;-)

 

[Erich Ocean]

for accurance i have to mention that RED puts more than twice as much photosites on a tiny bit smaller sensor..

I think you meant to say the RED MX is a tiny bit *larger* sensor. Otherwise, great post. This has been a really useful thread.

 

[RivaiC]

Quoting Roger Deakins:

"The Arri specs on the Alexa seem totally honest and accurate. I was testing the camera yesterday and I found it the first (and right now the only) digital camera to produce an image with the resolution and range as one captured on film."

there has to be a reason.

If you dont mind, here's the comparison of what Roger said so called "resolution as one captured on film". Jim posted the resolution chart and yes one can agree on dynamic range is better

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47529

BUT

1920 x 1080 and called it resolution as one captured on film is seriously ill and mislead information. Film has 4K spatial resolution.

That is marketing statement and does not serve any factual information about Alexa. The only digital camera who gives you that resolution is only RED and no one else.


Rivai

 

[Rob Ruffo]

I had a brief look at Alexa a couple of weeks ago and one thing that particularly struck me was the legendary Arri build quality, precision and forethought you'd expect from fine German engineering. It's beautifully made with attention to detail. All attachment points, the base plate, bridge, the handle, view finder mount and integration of accessories...are superb.

This is personal opinion, but I don't care much about what you can't see on the screen. The audience won't care how nicely the dovetail clicked into place.

 

[Sebastian Gross]

I think you meant to say the RED has a tiny bit *larger* sensor. Otherwise, great post. This has been a really useful thread.

got me on this one. to set it straight:

alexa: 23.760mm x13.365 mm
red: 24.4mm x 13.7mm

s.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

FWIW The verdict on Adobe CS5 seems to be that it's just as buggy as CS4; I doubt editing pros are going to be switching from Avid or FCP in droves anytime soon. (I'm not sure how RED footage is doing with MC5; personally, that's what I hope to use (with DaVinci Resolve for grading), assuming it works reliably.)

Against that, Apple ProRes is here today and works reliably for most people, most of the time. ProRes is desirable to *a lot* of producers, as well as Avid and FCP users, and not having to transcode is pretty big for a large segment of customers. Transcoding is a pain, especially when a quick turn around time is required.

(Yeah, yeah, you said you thought workflow was a non-issue, but...it's a "good" technical reason that RED really doesn't have a response for yet.)

P.s. I agree with Rod Bradley, too. Once Alexa and RED are identical, technically-speaking, people will still choose ARRI for personal reasons and vague, artistic reasons. There's nothing wrong with that.

I hated CS4, but CS5 has been running here for a WEEK without a reboot or crashing. It is less buggy than Avid, at this point, in my experience. That said, a Red Rocket is really a tiny deal, every night if need be. how much rushes length are you talking about? 2 hours, tops? So it takes 2 hours to transcode. Is anyone really in THAT much of a hurry? Maybe news shows, but I doubt they use Alexa.

 

[Sebastian Gross]

This is personal opinion, but I don't care much about what you can't see on the screen. The audience won't care how nicely the dovetail clicked into place.

nope and mostly the average user doesnt seem to care about dynamic range when you see megan foxes backside sliding through the event horizon..

but if you want to pull it off then you want to pull it off.
with that in mind comes a certain professionality that makes you go for the best possible solution out there.

that includes the whole package from screw to sensor.

and: when you're on a zodiac with a gyro stabilized crane and strong winds
you wanto to be sure as hell your dovetail could hold a car if needed ;-)

a chain is just as strong as its weakest part.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

"she" boots in under 25sec, does black shading before every single frame, the menu is the definition of simplified (see gary adcocks alexa menu introduction), it works with all the availabe gear, it is rock solid (the mount is attached to the body and to the sensor as well so you wont push it out of focus, once its measured AND it's not aluminium), the fan is amazingly quiet (next to a lawnmower red, no offense). we tested it between 12.9 and 14 T-stops, compared to a MX red with about 10.3 (and smearing in the highlights). for accurance i have to mention that RED puts more than twice as much photosites on a tiny bit smaller sensor..
it is simpy amazing what "she" sees in the dark. we watched an alexa shot (on a proper 2K beamer in a proper viewing environment) of a basment that was just lit by an open door and even this door was covered by a wall.
then they drenched a rubber ball in burning liquid and let it bounce down the basement stairs and it literally lit up the basement so you could see the structure on the walls of what seemed to be an unlit room.
then there was a closeUp-shot of roses with a nice purple-white gradient and all i can say is that its brilliance made our eyes water.

As far as i know ARRI's fiddling in the labs to press the ARRI RAW onto CF (when the time s right they'll just exchange the module) or SxS cards as well but the SSD's are simply not fast enough right now. by the time they will accomplish this there wont be any need for a t-link certified RAW recorder anymore.

since the NAB i was asking myself "what's the deal with 4444" if i have to rent a 40.000 bucks recorder to get me the RAW i am longing for..?" until i saw what the can pull out of 12bit-4444 with log-c and proper LUT's, especially when it comes to greenscreens and keying.

besides the marketing "shoot>edit>alexa" slogan it really is a simple and very steady workflow.

for as i totally like RED and it's products i can tell you that ARRI put a very solid camera together that can only be commented with:

"well done."

but i certainly think that reds modular design will be somewhat of a game changer, because when i need to move my camera quickly into narrow places than the alexa is simply not the weapon of choice..
proxy module, redmote and so on...
all pretty good stuff if it'll finally surface.. ;-)

This is the kind of info I was hoping for. Thanks.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

That's why apps on Windows, even in 64 bit environment have to run in 32 bit mode, if they want to support QT.

Jake - happily, this is not true. There are plenty of ways to support 32-bit APIs in a 64-bit environment. SCRATCH does it every day... ; )

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.

 

[RivaiC]

nope and mostly the average user doesnt seem to care about dynamic range when you see megan foxes backside sliding through the event horizon..

but if you want to pull it off then you want to pull it off.
with that in mind comes a certain professionality that makes you go for the best possible solution out there.

that includes the whole package from screw to sensor.

and: when you're on a zodiac with a gyro stabilized crane and strong winds
you wanto to be sure as hell your dovetail could hold a car if needed ;-)

a chain is just as strong as its weakest part.

Sebastian, can you direct me to samples of smearing highlight MX footage ?

Rivai

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Ok, so this is is not an invitation to Sanjin to express his love for Red. No offense to a dedicated forum user, but I think we know how you feel about this.

Thank you for not inviting me in this pretty spoiled and funny tread...:laugh:

As somebody here already mention it's all about marketing.

A lot of people that work with R1 MX professionally know what they can get out of it and they obviously don't need Alexa.

Actually that is Alexa's biggest issue :laugh:

Adam Arts or even Roger Deakins can't help so much to Alexa :laugh:

R1 was 11 stops, R1-MX is 12.5-13 stops and Epic prototype is today 17-18 stops of DR with HDRx (Jim confirmed that already and we trust him).

Now Alexa needs a kind of marketing story as this tread is taking somehow part of it

just because there is no bright future for Alexa after Epic start to ship.

 

[Detlev Eller]

... 1920 x 1080 and called it resolution as one captured on film is seriously ill and mislead information. Film has 4K spatial resolution.
Rivai

... to my understanding, film is chemical and has "infinite resolution", theoretically speaking, it is the scanning process putting the limits ...

a 4K scan is considered to be a high quality scan of the negative, which theoretically speaking, could be higher ...